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Bike Riding (or lack of ) Ability Question

I just watched the "Sawiris and I descending Hwy 39 from Crystal Lake" video.  The music was terrific and the riders seemed to be smoothly flying down the hills and through the turns.

Full disclosure -  I am a wuss when it comes to going down hill on a bike.  I enjoy fast as long as I am generating the fast, as opposed to a long down hill. 

Last week I rode the IMCDA course and faced what I considered to be brutal winds, primarily from the sides, and spent the majority of my time out of the areo bars with a death grip on my bike, convinced I was going to crash at any moment.  In reviewing the data, 30% of that ride consisted of coasting - my IF was an embarrassing .579, (VI was at 1.17) (I was also experiencing some mechanicals which probably exacerbated the IF/VI problem) which made the race rehearsal ride a total waste of time and effort with no training effect accomplished whatsoever in my mind.

So my question is - what recommendations do you have to help me get better at going down hills and riding in windy conditions faster and with less fear? 

Comments

  • To me riding fast is about bike handling ability, and bike handling is about balance. Early in my cycling career (about high school time) I got advice to practice keeping my bike on the line on the side of the road. Living in the Buffalo area at the time, I would ride for several minutes at a time trying to keep my tires on the narrow white stripe as a way to develop balance even while doing other things on my bike. That and a lot of mountain biking early on seemed to help. Also, taking a page from mountain biking, keeping your legs soft to absorb bumps and to deflect sudden shifts in balance always seems to help me on downhills and in wind.
  • Drugs, Al. Lots of drugs.

    I don't know how old you are but I think there is a direct correlation between having kids and comfort level of going really fast. Pre-kids I rode down the backside of Hogpen Gap in North Georgia and hit 52 mph. It was terrifying but thrilling. Now, I turn around at the top of the gap and go back down the way I came. It's still steep but I usually only hit the mid to high 30's. So, as is the case for most things, I blame the kids! ;-)
  • On two different occassions, on two different bikes, I almost crashed going down hills - FAST. I got the 'speed wobbles' and my front wheel was bouncing back-and-forth a good six inches, over and over. Ever since then, I've been a WUSS when it comes to descending.

    I know that you're not supposed to give the good GIJoe kung-fu grip, but I couldn't help it.

    I shared my story with a few other fast cyclists, and they shared to keep a lose grip, and actually 'hug' the top tube with your knees/legs and do NOT slam on the brakes.

    Great advice, but I'm still a wuss!
  •  Al - I admit to caution on downhills as well. I never could get up enough nerve to bomb down slopes in Xterra races the way those half our age are willing to do. (This limited my success in that tri genre.) I have no fears going hell bent for leather down a steep or bumpy ski slope, so it's not a generic fear thing. After seeing my mother get each hip replaced, and being an MD who has a number of osteoporotic patients in his practice, I think I just don't want to risk falling and breaking something important, like the head of my femur. Also, my wife says she prefers having me over having the life insurance payout. Also, in both 2000 and 2001, I was in races where someone, just my age, died while trying to negotiate a curvy fast downhill - there were good bikers, "better" (going faster) than me. One was Perry Rendina, at IM Calif 2001, the other on the RAMROD (Ride Around Mt Rainier in One Day). Those events brought a chilling reality to the sense of discomfort I naturally felt going downhill. Winning is not worth dieing. 

    Having said that, I determined over the years to figure out ways to minimize risk while keeping within my zone of caution. So I spent a lot of time learning about fore/aft weight position on my TT bike to get the most stable ride coasting downhill - i.e., eliminating front wheel wobble. And I pay a lot of conscious attention to where my feet, knees, and weight shifts are while going around curves downhill (think motorcyclist). I still get passed by all the less cautious young folks, but I no longer feel totally paralyzed.

    Many downhills on the CDA course, I ride on the bull horns, not on the aerobars. But I keep my head down - way down - my weight forward, and my elbows in. On curves, I try to keep my knee on the inside of the radius up and out.

    Like anything else, it takes practice, and trying things out slower speeds before raising the stakes. I've never conquered the fear, but at least now I have a strategy to help me manage it. And I am willing to "lose" time to others on the downhills, recognizing that 99+% of those I'm losing time to are in a younger age group and probably can tolerate a fall better than I can. Or maybe they don't care?

  • Al- I bombed down hills right up until I wrecked 2 years ago. Nothing was broken but it was a good lesson. (I crashed because I was unfamiliar with the road and going to fast to make a 90 degree turn at the bottom.) Since then- if I don't know the terrain, I am cautious to the point of slow. If I know the area well, I can be my old self to the extent that I am doing what has been mentioned- squeezing the top tube, trying to hold my hands loose, and looking every which way for vehicles. I immediately sit up and am out of aero if I sense any trouble, even if it is just a driver looking the other way.
  • Al,

    Last year at IMCdA I finally conquered my downhill demons. Each descent was a challenge and a triumph; I made it! Here's what helped me: slide waaay back on the saddle, stay in the aerobars, clamp the toptube with my knees, let the bike "go".

    You can do it.
  • I've split my downhill riding into two pieces, straight-aways and curved, technical sections. I'm getting much better at going fast when I see a straight downhill section. It's taken some time to build up the nerve, but I'm getting there. As to the technical stuff, my bike handling skills are obviously much weaker than a typical roadie. I tend to over brake and take corners the wrong way, instilling fear throughout. I'm practicing, but it's hard. I have found that trying to follow faster people helps. I watch where they take the lines through the curves, watch to see if and where they brake etc.

    I definitely fall into the category of older guy with kids / chicken!
  • Thanks for all your great comments! I thought I was the only one with down hill issues. I suspect that part of it does come from the fact that I am getting older (60 this year) and no longer feel I am invincible. That said I am able to let things semi loose when the hills are straight, the roads are smooth and there are little or no side winds - however when those winds kick up and/or the roads become less than optimum in my mind, I am definitely the cautious elder out there on the roads.
  • I'd put myself in Tom's category. If it's strait and I can see what is ahead, I'm pretty comfortable bombing down (on the road bike, the TT bike and I haven't had enough time together to be happy in that place yet). But if there's a lot of turns and blind curves, that's where I get chicken. I also agree that riding with others and following them down the hills really helps. I watch the line then take, the speed they take going into the turn, the knee popping out, the lean, etc and I just try to mimic it as best I can.

    Frankly, part of the problem is that my cornering skills really suck (even on flat roads). If it's a turn to the right I'm OK, but I suck at left hand turns- I think it's 'cause I unclip with my right foot and so I'm uncomfy coasting around a turn with my left foot down.
  • Descending on a bike is definitely a skill to be learned. Body position is important: As Bill says, get your weight back, arms and legs loose to absorb any bumps, eyes looking way ahead of where you want to go and not at every little thing that comes flying at your front wheel, and make sure to not grab a handful of that front brake in a panic (it's typically on the left side) or you'll endo.
    The next step would then get comfortable with speed and knowing the limits of your braking power. You can practice this in a parking lot going fast then stopping with just your rear brake, then your rear and front brake, then feathering both brakes. Just remember that when braking (and braking hard) your bike will want to pitch forward (especially if you're using alot of front brake) so keep your weight back.
  • Also, I'd say you have to be pretty confident in your equipment.
  • I always thought I loved descending as it allowed me to catch up to everyone who drops me on a climb. Since I am a big guy, 200lbs, I can really fly downhill. Then last year while training on the LP course I hit 52 mph going down the long descent. I probably shouldn't have looked down at my speed. Now I am constantly looking down at my speed while descending which is stupid. But some good advice here I will use.
  • Tucker,  I right there with you, as far as being a big guy and catching everyone on the down hill.  I always say "gravity is good to me".  Although, I have worked hard on my riding, I still can't begin to compete with those little guys when it comes to climbing.  There is a race in Boulder where you can absolutely scream down hill (50+ mph).  I love this race (Boulder Peak) a hard climb followed by a really fun decent.  I have trained and raced on it for years without thinking much of it.  Suffer to the top and flat out to the bottom and through the canyon, there isn't much to it.  Well, that was until a couple of years ago when a racer t-boned a bear during her screaming-fast decent.  She got up and finished but I now I'm a little cautious when decending.

  • Wait a second.......t-boned a BEAR?

  • Al, I was also SERIOUSLY TERRIFIED of descending! This is embarrassing... when I was first learning to ride, I was out with my husband and a whole bunch of roadies. I was so scared to descend a hill, I got off and WALKED my bike down a hill while they all waited for me at the bottom! Yep! Descent nerd, right here!

    Anyway, I find that once you learn a descent position that you're comfortable with, going out and descending is one to do it. For instance, the big descent on the IMLP course into Keene. We have some big hills here in the finger lakes area of upstate NY that are like that. Just being out there and riding them helps, especially with peeps you are comfortable riding with!
  • GREAT advice here...remember too that descending on a tri bike vs road bike is very different. Anyone else recall pics of coach rich's IMMoo road rash from 2004? Even the mighty fall.

    The best thing to do is just to keep doing it. And approach every drop / turn / twist as a chance to go slightly faster than you want. Relax your hands, use your body weight (that actually controls your bike) and keep your weight on the seat. For those cross winds, my strategy is to stay aero and to sit into the wind as if I was taking a turn. The minute you sit up or use your hands, you have really increased your wind profile and subjected your steering mechanism (handlebars) to the elements!

    Descending is free speed....good luck!

    P
  •  

    [script removed]

    Those were the days riding Hogpen. despite children, I took the opportunity to go as fast as possible. Fastest speed was 59.6 mph on a windless day. Had to put the brakes on coming in to the chicane. I lost hearing temporarily due to the wind.


     
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