Got a question about stroke rate. I use a Garmin Swim that gives me a SWOLF of 109 and an average strokes per length (50 metres) of 37. This was in a 4.2 km wko with an average pace of 2:21 per 100 metres. I am not sure what these mean?
I guess this means my spm is 31.4 (37*60*2/141). Or is it 63 as your answer to Leslie above appears to suggest?
I have ordered a wetronome to begin working on increasing my spm this winter.
I'm not familiar with that Garmin product, so can't confirm what it's capturing/calculating. 37 strokes, however, sounds about right for the TOTAL strokes (both arms) for 50 meters. 17-20 is pretty normal for 25 yards/meters, and I think it would be impossible to do 74 total strokes over 50 meters. Next time out, set the Garmin to stoke/length and then also count in your head. You'll figure it out instantly.
If you really are swimming at 31 spm, that's low. And you should be able to get that 2:11/100m time down pretty quickly by easing into the 40 and 50 spm ranges. The wetronome will be really helpful in that task. I use it to keep stroke rate up (i.e., one beep every second or so) and to evenly pace longer intervals (i.e., one beep at every wall turn for a 400).
SWOLF is useful, but you don't need to read into what 109 really means. You should just use that SWOLF number as a baseline, with the goal to slowly bring that number down as you cover distance more quickly and efficiently (i.e., with the optimal number of strokes).
Peter, I wear the 910xt and it only counts the strokes of the arm that wears the watch. I wasnt sure about the Garmin Swim so I found this on the Garmin support page:
"When using the Garmin Swim or Forerunner 910XT/920XT or Fenix 2 for swimming, the device will only count the strokes for the arm wearing the watch. It does not take into consideration the count for the arm not wearing the watch because the watch only records information it knows to be true. There is not a way for the watch to know what the other arm is doing. To illustrate, let's say a swimmer swam the length of the pool. These devices display a stroke count of 10, which should mean the total stroke count should be 20. However, if the swimmer ends the swim with the same arm it started with, the total stroke count would be 19 or 21."
@ Bob — thanks for that. This makes sense as these watches use an accelerometer to count the strokes by the arm that has the watch on it. Therefore I am pretty sure that my srm is around 60. @ Mike — I will double check when at the pool in the next couple of days to confirm. I will do the ramp test as you suggest and work from that in seeking to increase my srm.
I would like to pose a question for the swim guru's. Every once in awhile, for laughs, I'll throw a band on my ankles without a pull buoy and swim 25 yards across the pool. In short, I suck. I think hard about pressing my chest down and trying to keep my hips and legs up, but as I go along I can feel my legs sinking, and towards the end of the 25 yards, it feels as I'm swimming at a 30 degree angle instead of horizontal with the water. Does this mean I don't have enough pull strength to keep the legs up or could it be something else? And if I am a weakling, then how do you develop that pull-specific power to maintain body position when using a band only??
Paul, FWIW, I treat buoy-less band work as a drill, not as an attempt to swim "normally" with ankles tied up. It's a brutal drill, and everyone's feet will sink to some extent. What I like about it is that it forces you to grab a lot of water with a fast turnover and good rhythm. If you create a dead spot by overgliding, lift your head, hold your breath, etc., those feet are going to the bottom in a hurry (look at Newsome's Youtube video in the link Attila provided and see at the end where he purposefully curls his feet, lifts his head and overglides with hand brakes - just to show how fast the feet will drop). The fact that you said you feel your feet "sinking" over the course of 25 suggests that you're doing well early on (head down, exhaling, one eye only, core engaged, toes pointed, pulling lots o' H2O horizontally with turnover), but then your capacity to hold it fades. If you only do a few of these 25s per month for "fun," you may not see any progression. But if you do it once or twice a week, building from 2x25 to 8x25, you will get better at it.
Paul, to my mind, one should be able to maintain horizontal body position, regardless of motion or not, and regardless of use of legs or not.
not a strength thing.
something to be practiced, as per the video that Coach P posted on the daily page.
i think i am able to get fairly decent swimming times, without huge yardage, because of body position. even with non-ideal things like a scissor kick, etc.
Hello all - not sure if everyone is still reading this post however in case....simple question.
I have been doing red mist drills since this post started and it's been great. If I look at my paces when broken down by 100yds, it's my best time.
Question I have is if I then use the tempo trainer to beep once every 1 sec..or 1.1 sec, etc etc...I can never recreate the speed I am doing when I program the beep for once every length.
So....how do I actually translate the pace per length to pace per stroke? If I swim without any tempo trainer...I am slower than the drill as well.
@Dawn - good question, hoping the others chime in here. I am about to start the metronome, so I am hoping others chime in here. I actually started swimming with music and have found it helps me develop a better and oddly, despite the song, repeatable rhythm/pace over multiple sets.
+ 1 on this WORKS. Been really focused on CSS and bringing it down a tick since the end of IM season. Today did 10 x 100 almost all five seconds faster than mid August and it felt EASIER. My swimming is by no means epic but this kind of improvement in the context of how long I've been working on it is just awesome. Thank you Mike!
So, I have been following this thread and trying to implement the suggestions as I go along. Sunday, I was finally able to get my first session with a coach. It was very interesting in that he had me do an entire workout of catch-up drill in slow motion because my form is evidently crap. His plan is for me to do drills only for the next month then progress to more distance and pick up the pace.
BTW, 1200 yards of One arm drills is not something to be undertaken lightly.
I mention this only because after I initially read this thread a while back, I ordered the wetronome and had been working on increasing my stroke rate but was not seeing much improvement. So the points I would make are : 1. make sure you have the body position down before you try to implement the more advanced steps. and 2. Getting someone (a coach) who knows what they are talking about to give you feedback to improve #1 will save you a lot of time if you don't have a swimming background.
Comments
Great post.
Got a question about stroke rate. I use a Garmin Swim that gives me a SWOLF of 109 and an average strokes per length (50 metres) of 37. This was in a 4.2 km wko with an average pace of 2:21 per 100 metres. I am not sure what these mean?
I guess this means my spm is 31.4 (37*60*2/141). Or is it 63 as your answer to Leslie above appears to suggest?
I have ordered a wetronome to begin working on increasing my spm this winter.
Peter,
I'm not familiar with that Garmin product, so can't confirm what it's capturing/calculating. 37 strokes, however, sounds about right for the TOTAL strokes (both arms) for 50 meters. 17-20 is pretty normal for 25 yards/meters, and I think it would be impossible to do 74 total strokes over 50 meters. Next time out, set the Garmin to stoke/length and then also count in your head. You'll figure it out instantly.
If you really are swimming at 31 spm, that's low. And you should be able to get that 2:11/100m time down pretty quickly by easing into the 40 and 50 spm ranges. The wetronome will be really helpful in that task. I use it to keep stroke rate up (i.e., one beep every second or so) and to evenly pace longer intervals (i.e., one beep at every wall turn for a 400).
SWOLF is useful, but you don't need to read into what 109 really means. You should just use that SWOLF number as a baseline, with the goal to slowly bring that number down as you cover distance more quickly and efficiently (i.e., with the optimal number of strokes).
I wear the 910xt and it only counts the strokes of the arm that wears the watch. I wasnt sure about the Garmin Swim so I found this on the Garmin support page:
"When using the Garmin Swim or Forerunner 910XT/920XT or Fenix 2 for swimming, the device will only count the strokes for the arm wearing the watch. It does not take into consideration the count for the arm not wearing the watch because the watch only records information it knows to be true. There is not a way for the watch to know what the other arm is doing.
To illustrate, let's say a swimmer swam the length of the pool. These devices display a stroke count of 10, which should mean the total stroke count should be 20. However, if the swimmer ends the swim with the same arm it started with, the total stroke count would be 19 or 21."
Hope that helps.
Therefore I am pretty sure that my srm is around 60.
@ Mike — I will double check when at the pool in the next couple of days to confirm. I will do the ramp test as you suggest and work from that in seeking to increase my srm.
Wow, great video. I think I'd panic if I put one of those on.
Paul, to my mind, one should be able to maintain horizontal body position, regardless of motion or not, and regardless of use of legs or not.
not a strength thing.
something to be practiced, as per the video that Coach P posted on the daily page.
i think i am able to get fairly decent swimming times, without huge yardage, because of body position. even with non-ideal things like a scissor kick, etc.
I have been doing red mist drills since this post started and it's been great. If I look at my paces when broken down by 100yds, it's my best time.
Question I have is if I then use the tempo trainer to beep once every 1 sec..or 1.1 sec, etc etc...I can never recreate the speed I am doing when I program the beep for once every length.
So....how do I actually translate the pace per length to pace per stroke? If I swim without any tempo trainer...I am slower than the drill as well.
Thoughts?
+ 1 on this WORKS. Been really focused on CSS and bringing it down a tick since the end of IM season. Today did 10 x 100 almost all five seconds faster than mid August and it felt EASIER. My swimming is by no means epic but this kind of improvement in the context of how long I've been working on it is just awesome. Thank you Mike!
August 19th:
Today:
BTW, 1200 yards of One arm drills is not something to be undertaken lightly.
I mention this only because after I initially read this thread a while back, I ordered the wetronome and had been working on increasing my stroke rate but was not seeing much improvement. So the points I would make are : 1. make sure you have the body position down before you try to implement the more advanced steps. and 2. Getting someone (a coach) who knows what they are talking about to give you feedback to improve #1 will save you a lot of time if you don't have a swimming background.
I will keep you updated on my progress.