Ultrafast Chain Optimization

Coach Rich

A discussion elsewhere to the forums led me to look this up:

http://ultrafastoptimization.com/

Can any of the GearHeads comment on this? A claimed 5w savings on a 10spd Shimano DA chain for $89 is certainly a good ROI.

tim cronk

I buy one optimized chain per year ..... I don't know if it really helps but for the couple dollars extra it cost over a normal Dura Ace chain and considering all the money we spend in this sport its peanuts.... When its brand new it feels smooth, quiet, and fast!

This is what I do.... Buy optimized chain pre-season.... Install 1 week 1st- IM race.... Race with it... Take it off....Put old chain back on for training... Repeat for as many IM's in the season (note: I don't bother with them for HIM's or shorter races)..... At the end of the season , remove old training chain , throw away , the new optimized chain now becomes my new training chain.... 1 chain purchase per season....

For HIM's and other races I use the training chain but I clean it and lube it according to the info on the optimized site....

Dino Sarti

^^^^ that is awesome for soooo many reasons. I love it.

Dino Sarti

Well, that was easy. They take PayPal.

jaleslie

Interested.  But I've never replaced a chain.  I'm not afraid of doing it, but what tools do I need to get?  My drivetrain is 10spd durace rear and ultegra front....  

I have no idea what chain I have now 

Caltri

I used an optimized chain for IMAZ and Oceanside 70.3 and didn't have any negatives issues. Can't say for sure if it helped but it certainly didn't hurt. They say you can get 200 miles out of one optimization. They also recommend you break it in before your race since it is a little stiff when you take it out of the bag. Just received my second chain in the mail today to use at IMAT.

Coach Rich

Thanks all for the input. 

This will be going on a "Free Speed" wiki post, where I'll park and consolidate information on stuff like this: tires, tubes, chains, aerohelmets, bottle placement and other tricks. 

Caltri

Coach: Another topic under free speed to consider is the rear derailleur pulleys. Friction-Facts did a study showing a 1W difference between different pulleys. Yes, it's only a watt, but....
I also asked a question yesterday on the forum about mid-sole cleat placement. Joe Friel & Steve Hogg recommend it, especially for triathletes as it seems to decrease the work of the calves on the bike thus saving them for the run. If true... free speed.

Coach Rich

Posted By Bob Nelson on 10 Apr 2015 12:36 PM


Coach: Another topic under free speed to consider is the rear derailleur pulleys. Friction-Facts did a study showing a 1W difference between different pulleys. Yes, it's only a watt, but....

I also asked a question yesterday on the forum about mid-sole cleat placement. Joe Friel & Steve Hogg recommend it, especially for triathletes as it seems to decrease the work of the calves on the bike thus saving them for the run. If true... free speed.

Sawiris and I had sushi last night and he discussed a paying $14 for a report (sounds like your thingy above) that describes tested opportunities to save #x watts for this, #y watts for that, etc. I'll see about getting my hands it. 

I've raced IMWI 3x and for each race I think my watts were about 213-217w Pnorm. So I'm extremely familiar with (1) the work required to get me to those watts and (2) the work that would be required to go up another 10-15w, let's say. So I'm very, very interested this season in finding 10-20w through smart equipment and aero choices, enabling a 225-230w-esque bike split on 215w, for example. 

Of course, I'm also trying to raise the ceiling to ride >220-225w, but my intent is create a family of resources that lets every TeamEN athlete find double digit wattage savings through smart choices. 

John Bayone

Thank you for putting this up. Very interesting stuff. Do you guys have any advice on the re-optimization option? is that something that you do? Or just get it, and put in on shortly before a IM race? What is your typical amount of riding on it before a race?

Thanks as always for your help.
John.

Coach Rich

Posted By John Bayone on 10 Apr 2015 01:07 PM


Thank you for putting this up. Very interesting stuff. Do you guys have any advice on the re-optimization option? is that something that you do? Or just get it, and put in on shortly before a IM race? What is your typical amount of riding on it before a race?



Thanks as always for your help.

John.

I think that above Tim says they recommend about 200mi of riding before a race. Which is also about what you'll ride on a new shifter cable job before you need to have it tuned due to the cables stretching...which now has me thinking about what effect does a new cassette have on drive train friction and mating with this chain.

So...is it recommended to also get a new cassette when getting this optimize chain? Or, rather is:

Watts saved through optimized chain (OC) + new cassette  >  Watts saved through OC + old cassette. 

And to bring it around to the cables, etc, if I were to get a new tune (especially new cables) on the bike, I'd do that, this new chain and new cassette (depends on the answer above) about 2-3wks out so I can (1) but the recommended 200mi on the chain and (2) have enough time to stretch the cables and take it back in for a retune. 

Caltri

Will have to learn how to insert a photo. But since I can't, here is what the paperwork says that came with the optimized chain:
"The chain has been initially broken in at our lab, but not completely. An additional 10 to 15 minutes of riding will break in your chain fully and from that point the chain will be performing at its optimum efficiency.
Optimization is effective for 200 miles of clean condition writing. After this point, you can re-lube it as you would a normal chain."

Dino Sarti

I spent a lot for time on their site. The say what Bob has quoted a above. My thinking would be change the change before you drop it off to be shipped or you pack it for the trip. Spend a little time, a few miles on it, at the venue doing the usual EN stuff per the plan. I doubt people ride more that 50 miles on race week. Then ride 112 for Ironman and the magic chain is no more. The spell has been broke. The unicorn blood has worn off it.

Rinse and repeat with a fresh chain for the next IM.

Paul Hough

My understanding is that if you install with a masterlink the magic is gone. The Shimano links are a PITA so I will just optimize be ensuring a clean drive-train with a quality lube instead of adding all the extra logistics for claimed savings that probably won't materialize.

Dino Sarti

they actually recommend a quick link....

Caltri

@Paul: They will optimize any chain. My Shimano 11 speed chain requires a pin. So I just take my chain cutter tool with me. I remove my old "training" chain, clean the cassette and drivetrain before I pack the bike. On arrival, I use the chain cutter tool to install the chain using the pin. No lube. It's a little stiff and they recommend the 10-15 minute break-in before racing. The chain does have powder from the optimization, but it is not wet. There is really not a lot of extra logistics. As for during the race, I don't know if it works for sure or not, but I can tell you this: At IMAZ, I rode at the wattage I had planned for most of the bike, felt like I "could" have gone faster but rode my "should", got off the bike feeling good, and ran the entire marathon (except the 30 steps at aid stations) and had a 91 minute IM PR. Thus, even though maybe I just executed much better (which I know I did since it was my first IM with EN), I will be using an optimized chain for my future IMs and 70.3s.

Coach Rich

Posted By Paul Hough on 10 Apr 2015 03:44 PM


My understanding is that if you install with a masterlink the magic is gone. The Shimano links are a PITA so I will just optimize be ensuring a clean drive-train with a quality lube instead of adding all the extra logistics for claimed savings that probably won't materialize.

My understanding of their process, from reading their website, is that they take a stock chain, test it, run it through their optimization process, test it again, and ship the chain to you with a report of the wattage improvement/gain/friction reduction/whatever.

Bob/Tim, can you confirm ^this^?

tim cronk

@Coach R... Correct... I think my last chain said - 4watts

Caltri

Their website has DIY directions (http://ultrafastoptimization.com/about/diy) using supplies you can get on your own. But I was willing to pay the few extra dollars and let them have powder and melted wax all over their "kitchen". Christi might draw the line at me using her crock pot to melt wax.
When I bought my chain from them last year ($89 for the Dura Ace 11 spd) I also purchased the "re-optimization" option where for $50 or $60, I can ship it back to them and they will optimize it again. But this time they didn't offer that service for some reason.

MattAaronson

That ultrafast chain plus ceramic speed bearings are two things I plan to add to my bike. They will have psychological benefit if nothing else. I will do these 2 weeks before race day...no sooner.

Mark Cardinale

I added this to my tri bike a few months back and didn't really notice a difference until i took my road bike out for a spin and it felt like the breaks were rubbing.  After that i was sold.

Coach Rich

Posted By Mark Cardinale on 11 Apr 2015 09:06 AM

I added this to my tri bike a few months back and didn't really notice a difference until i took my road bike out for a spin and it felt like the breaks were rubbing.  After that i was sold.

Ok, I'll add bearings to the growing Free Speed resource...as well as ideas for simple all cash businesses so we can all hide these upgrades from our CFO's .

I've always thought that owning one of those coin operated self-serve carwashes would be good. Maybe there's an opportunity to start Carwash Nation, a franchise owned by a group of EN investors 

Dino Sarti

I find the phrase "free speed" interesting in this context....

Coach Rich

In this context, anything that does not cost you watts = free, even if it does cost you $$$.

Dino Sarti

Boom! The Angels of Wattage juts smiled upon me.

My Optimized chain landed. According to them, she's good for 4.77 watts. To me, that is meaningful.... I arrived earlier this week when I was in Canada. It took probably 10 days from purchase to show up. I also heard they have Out-of-Stocks. If you wanna race one this Summer, I would say order one now. I threw mine in a drawer and will use it July for IMCanada.

Unless I buy 8 this week.... One for each day of the ToC.

Al Truscott

Dino, you only need 4. Aren't they good for 200 miles? But then, by day four, you're gonna need more than 5 free watts...

Dino Sarti

tim cronk

Did I miss this? UltraFast Optimization has been acquired by CeramicSpeed.

Or is it recent? You now order from Ceramic Speed in Denmark .... Pay is in Euro's

Mark Roberts

Yes. Just acquired by ceramic speed. I bought one a few weeks ago and it should be delivered today. Have to get in out on for Texas. I also went with new deraileur pulleys and changed the bearings in my 10'year old zipp disc. Thing spins like brand new. Pulleys seem to make a difference too or maybe the 2008 sram pulleys were just shot. All of this going on the bike for TX this weekend. It probably does add up to 10 watts or so between hair, pulleys and bearings.

MattAaronson

I got my ultrafast chain but instead of sending me a CN-9000 they sent me the mountain bike version. They were quick to refund my money (they had no 11-speed Shimano road chains so could not send me a replacement). If my training goes well I plan to upgrade BB bearings and pullys too...but not until right before the race. No way I'm going to train with all that stuff!! Pretty unreal cost but it becomes a rounding error in the context of what I've spent over time. In for a penny, in for a pound, eh??

Mark Roberts

Got my chain yesterday. Looks like it's covered in powder. Maybe thats the wax? Do i just put in on and go? I dont think adding any chain lube is necessary.