Swim clues for a sinker?
Hoping I can pick up a few pointers from the peeps.
I'm an OK swimmer as it is, having grown up as a (below average) youth swimmer. After putting in a bit of effort, my 1000 TT (SCY, open turns) is between 15:30 and 16:00. (Not quite there yet this year) But I find it frustrating that I'm not better.
One of the problems I have is that I'm a sinker. I can't float on my back to save my life. Literally. I can't do a deadman float without cheating. I don't even float with my wetsuit on. Unsurprisingly, it's my legs that sink. I know this throws my body position off. If I'm working at - say - a 1:40 pace per 100 yds, and then work that same perceived effort with a pull buoy and no kicking whatsoever, it's a LOT closer to 1:30.
Has anyone got form/drill/whatever suggestions to help out a lead-legs like me? Thanks!
William
P.S. I haven't figured out the right kind of search terms here to come up with a good list of the swim discussions...I'm sure this has been discussed before, or at least I'm not the only one who faces the issue. Sorry for the duplication.
Comments
1. Make sure your looking straight down if your legs sink. This will bring the legs to the surface. Looking straight ahead naturally pushes your legs down.
2. Try a variation of the catch up drill. More weight in the front quadrant will bring your legs to the surface. I think Rich refers this to archer drills.
3. Make sure your legs are straight. Bends in the knee pulls the hips down.
Tough to explain - in a forum
I'm sure you'll get lots of good advice here but I'll talk to a friend of mine who swam competitively through college and comes out of the water at IMs with the pros (truly). she's met with a few of my very swim challenged friends and has helped them a lot...
I'm a pretty decent swimmer, but not a pro by any means.. anyway, my friend Julie swims with me occasionally... and she's noticed that my legs drop off a bit as I get tired, and she told me to fix my head placement - so I'm looking out towards the wall ahead of me and not down at the floor -- funny the post ahead of this one says the opposite... I was actually told to look down for the same reason once upon a time... but the same person who told me that told me to do catch up drills with my hands meeting over my head which according to the new school is not the correct arm entry placement... arms should enter at the shoulder... lots of schools out there, I guess...
FWIW, I've heard very good things about total immersion swimming as far as technique goes. anyway, I'll touch base with Julie and see if she can put something in writing or direct me to a web pag for you to check out...good luck!
The more you kick - the big sprinters kick - the more you can look forward. I used to get massive headaches when I made the move from competitive swimming to open water Triathlon swimming mainly because of the pressure I was putting on my neck looking straight ahead. In the pool your taught to look for the wall....
In the pool my big kick keeps the legs up but my races last 25 secs to a 1 min. So pressure on my neck never built up like it did for a 30' 1/2 swim. By tucking the chin you're keeping the spine in its natural state - no pressure.
To test this theory next time you're in the pool - take a few strokes by sighting. Stick your head out of the water and your lower half goes in the opposite direction....we're human teeter totters.
Becky -- My latest swim instructor told me to do the same thing with my head -- I was looking down instead of slightly forward. The change really changed my head position.
Are you leaning on your lungs enough? My instructor gave me an article from Men's Health, by Terry Laughlin that suggests puffing out your chest in a "manly" posture to help make sure this in happening.
BTW, I learned my technique from Total Immersion, and I can highly recommend it. But in my experience, the TI books and DVD's aren't sufficient - you need to attend a workshop, and then you need at least monthly lessons from a TI coach to correct mistakes you don't catch on your own (which in my case were many). Once I started taking monthly lessons, each lesson gave me a huge leap forward. Oh, and it's probably best to start TI after your tri season is over.
I learned, or relearned, with Total Immersion also and I recommend it. The basic drills are great for learning balance in the water (ie. sweet spot and skating). I would also recommend attending a workshop or locating a one on one coach.
I'm interested in finding out what all is given here.
I've read the TI book, but am a little gun shy with spending so much money on a swim class.
@Beth - thanks for the chest puffy thought. Again, something I can play with.
As to the head, I am sure that I don't have it perfect, but I've moved it down over the last year or two (from more of a pure swimmer style looking more forward), and that did seem to help some, as has being more aggressive in certain aspects of my catch. The latter, though, mean my stroke is a little less "archer/catch-up" style than some would advocate. I would be very hesitant to move my head up more; can't see how that doesn't sink my back and butt...
Grrr. I should probably break down and hire someone to help me...
William, Scott, I'm with you. I do all my swims warming up with a DeSoto speed tube - a wetsuit for the legs - and otherwise use a pull buoy. I figure trying counteract the effects of my heavy legs and a BF of 6% is about as likely as being able to dunk a basketball (I'm not quite 5'10", 148#). My swim times are "good enough" (33' HIM, 68' IM) once I get in a wetsuit, so I just don't care that much about getting better. I'd rather spend my mental energy becoming a better biker. I've tried everything, all the body positioning advice, and the only thing that works is kicking so much that I tire myself out too much for the more important bike and run workouts. AND, the kicking seems to sap my arm strength while I'm swimming, so I don't go any faster. Swimming is only 10% of the IM or HIM race, anyway.
But to return to your point... your idea is that your race-relevant conditions are more-or-less equivalent to using the pull buoy, so it's just not worth swimming without one? Or what rationale do you use for not training at least in large part with a "normal" swim?
@ William, I should probably wait about 12 hours to answer, as I'm doing the 1000 yd TT @ 6:30 AM tomorrow, so I'll have a better perspective on how that compares to my race times. What I do know is that over the past ten years, I've generally been able to do 1:48/1:37 as my "all day" short course METERS/YARDS pool time, with a pull buoy and flip turns, and that's just about what I do the IM swim in. It also *feels* like the same body position and muscular action as swimming in a wet suit with race day minimal kicking. I focus on having a long, slow stroke with increasing power towards the end of each stroke. I'll re-post tomorrow with my TT time and further thoughts.
Do you think the wetsuits out there ('legal ones') that make claims on rectifying position are worth it? Can a Blue70 Axis (that I'm considering) be any better for this purpose than say their more neutral Helix??
Probably the same situation in the US(?) but typically all my local stores only carry 1 or 2 brands and the majority don't do demo suits - one store has its own indoor pool but only sell a very basic brand that isn't highly thought of unfortunately.
Any tips welcome - thanks David
@ William: to point # 1 above; So now I've done the 1000 TT, in 15:29. Quick and dirty calcs give me a 1:33/yds, 1:44/100 meters. That meters time equals my fastest Olympic and HIM swim pace in the past two years, and is about 1% slower than the pace I had at IMMoo, which was my fastest IM time (26:00, 33:00, 1:06.xx). I was in a SCY pool, using a pull buoy with flip turns. So I'd guess you *could* go faster in a race, assuming a wetsuit.
As to point # 2, why do I train with a pull buoy. Easy answer is that I've been doing it since about 1975, long before I ever started doing triathlons, so I just kept on doing what I'd been doing for 25 years. Once I started doing tris, that training style seemed to work OK for me, so I never bothered to change, although I now do about 500-1000 of each workout with the Speed Tube on, just to pretend I'm trying to learn how to swim with proper body position and kick. I started using the pull buoy because I just got so frustrated flailing around when I did freestyle, and I had no real reason to learn how to swim right (was swimming for exercise, not competition.)
In the pool, it's always a pull buoy to simulate the body position of using a wetsuit. Yes, I consciously choose races that are wetsuit-legal for that reason, as well as mental limitations of the water - open and pool.
in any event, lots of folks are down with total immersion... and I haven't heard from my friend julie who is seriously a fish. will keep you posted. good luck!
William, here are some thoughts from my friend and uber swimmer:
Since I can't see him in the water let him know he should concentrate on 3 things:
1. Head Position - Never look straight down at the bottom of the pool. Your eyes need to be looking at the other end. Looking down can cause your hips to sink. Head position doesn't have to be uncomfortable (IE: just make sure your eyes are looking towards the other end.
2. Hips - Hips could be sinking. Body needs to be straight in the water. No bends in the waist
3. Kicking - If he is kicking from his knees and not from the hip, this automatically messes up his body alignment.
I am trying to be uber-concious of keeping my butt up and legs "straight" relative to the rest of my body, plus doing some more pull work than before to at least give my arms a chance to work in the right position. We'll see how it goes.
Cheers,
Wm
Any wetsuit is going to rectify your position. If there's rubber on your legs they are floating. There may be varying levels but I would think the difference is minor. Others may have some experience with this specifically.