What are top age grouper's w/kg and VDOT?
I'm just curious (and I want to make some long term goals), if I want to compete with the top age group guys where would my numbers need to be? I’m in the 30-35 age group. I know there are some wicked fast people in the house that compete and win their age groups and I’m just curious where is their w/kg and VDOT fall in? I just want to set some goals for myself and this is where I want to be so I need to know what kind of numbers I need to be shooting for.
Thanks!
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Comments
I'm just throwing this out there but I would say 4.5 w/kg and 60 VDOT. One could probably be competetive with a little less.
The top 30-34 AG guys that I know are 4.2 plus and 60 vdot folks. W/kg kinda depends on weight though as the featherweights can have good looking w/kg numbers but lack the raw power to go really fast. As long as you are 150 plus those numbers are good targets.
Chris, when you say w/kg depends on weight, are talking things like Crr and aerodynamics? If 2 people have the same w/kg for lets say 60 minutes, what separates them? Just curious as I've read things like this before but haven't understood it all. Thanks!
Dan
Also, I think it is a moving target because the AGers just seem to be getting faster and faster every year ... not to mention there seems to be a bunch of "part-time" pros that are serriously considering moving back to racing AG becuase of some of the new WTC rules.
My numbers from last year line up well with what Matt and Chris said. I am in M25-29 and was at 4.5 w/kg and 61 vdot last year for IMWI, where I was just barely able to win my AG. As Chris noted though, I was 132lbs and my ftp is only 270, but because IMWI is hilly it worked for me.
FWIW - My goals in order to be competitive in M30-34 next year on most courses is 5 w/kg and 65 vdot. Plus I have to learn how to swim :-)
Don't forget race execution can make a hugh difference as well, but with power meters more and more guys are slowly figuring out how to race smarter.
My suggestion is to focus on short term goals each year to get to your long term goal.
Jennifer, I understand that, but my question is the difference among people who have the same w/kg. I think Matt just touched on that a little bit ago. Thanks!
Dan
Mike, thanks, I understand more clearly now. too many numbers for me!!!!! I guess the key is keep your weight low and w/kg high. I do have an advantage on the downhills though...
Dan
Yeah Matt, I'm a small guy too. Currently around 155 but I race around 145. I know I could cut maybe another 5-10lbs below 145 if I really dial in my nutrition.
Yes, like everyone else I would like to qualify for Kona and I know that it is a shot in the dark but I just wanted to have an idea of what it would take, knowing that there are way more variables in it then just w/kg and vdot.
Matt.....you are a beast man! Nice numbers!
I really enjoyed reading this thread.
Right up to the point where I realized I outweigh Matt by 100lbs.
Probably explains why I am in no danger of taking a Kona slot from anyone in the near future.
That's hilarious!!! I can't look at anyone else sig. line because of these sorts of problems that I have!
@Chad - don't forget about course selection... definitely pick a course like Wisconsin, St. Goerge, etc. For now, just put your head down and do the work to get your ftp and vdot up and everything else will work out with time.
As others have hinted to, w/kg is a good indication but not perfect. Aerodymanics and your position play a huge role as well.
For example, at IMWI my 4.5w/kg is strong and I am pretty competitive on the bike, because that course is always going up or down, or turning.
If I went to Flordia or Arizone, it would be a different story as my 270w from last year wont help me all that much as bigger guys can put out more raw power and I don't have nearly as much of an advantage becuase of my weight. Watts per CdA (i ebelieve) is what becomes important here as being areo is more critical than being light.
Did read that Rasmus Henning at IMChina overcooked his bike section by sticking to 270w - so, his FTP is probs around 350 w'ish? Jordan Rapp I believe was pegging similar numbers at IMAZ and he's 155lbs - so, approx 5w/kg. Suspect their vDot's are superior in relation to w/kg however??
Execution is probably the main criteria as Matt suggested.
The fastest guy I ride with qualified for Kona in 35-39 @ IM AZ. I happened to talk with him this weekend on our ride about his numbers. He's a swim coach (so he goes mid 50s in an IM swim), races @ 160#, generates an FTP of 300 (4.05 w/kg), and has a 60 VDOT. I think that's a good portfolio, along with proper training, equipment, bike position, and race strategy, for being a "top AGer".
Wait 25-30 years, and you can afford to slow down - just a little!
my frame of reference is pretty small as far as far as our local guys go because few guys even talk about power. Nate White who was a top AGer (won hy-vee) last year is around 4.9 w/kg his vDot is about 67. Wicked genetics, he'll be one to watch. His older brother is Crowie's coach.
Chad, see the following EN tread for some data on last year Kona qualifiers by age group. I estimate some vDOTs and FTP levels for the average qulaifiing. Note these are average of the top 5 . The AG winner will likely be significantly higher than the average values shown. http://endurancenation.us.dnnmax.co...fault.aspx
Matt
Some one needs to tell be how to rename a link. I have searched and tried but no luck.
I love these topics about numbers, but I'm obviously not that savvy with them! Would anyone be willing to PM their telephone number so that I could chat about it? I'd love to know as much as possible. I've read, and reread a couple of my favorites, but topics always get brought up that I don't remember reading about and I have no clue what is going on. No one around me has a power meter so I can't talk numbers with friends. I guess it sounds weird, but I'd rather talk for 20 minutes than post for 72 hours. I'm on the east coast and would obviously call at your convenience. Many thanks to anyone who dares!!
Dan
Anyway, the point being that as the others have attested, I can really feel the advantage of that weight (or lack thereof) on the hills in comparison to the guys a I ride with, but I can't get cocky and think that I'm just an all around stronger rider. I cruise or take off on the hills where the heavier guys suffer, but when we are back on the flats I would have to work substantially harder to ever drop the same guys I ride with. I never thought I would say this, but it is making me want more hilly races, in the long run I think they'll be my only chance as I'd get eaten alive somewhere like AZ or FL.
I came to this realization last year!
Yeah Trevor, I'm in the same boat and just now realizing it. I need to start picking out some hilly races. Actually come to think of it, I don't think I've ever done a hilly IM or HIM, they have all been flat. I would also throw in hilly and hot because typically us smaller folks can handle the heat a little better too. (I think).
I too am hoping to be in the low 4's w/kg this season so I need to start planning some races that would benefit my ability and not the ones that are near the beach.
Matt,
start by typing a word. Then, highlight that word. Then, click on the hyperlink button. Just put the link in, and hit OK.
Mike
Mike thanks for the help with the naming a link - I knew it was simple but just could not find it.
Matt
My numbers:
FTP = 275w; It hasn't changed much over the last 4 years though. I have up years ('05, '07 and '09) and down years ('06 and '08) where it fluctuates about 5 - 10w.
Race weight = 145lbs
AG = 40-44 and moving to 45-49 this year
w/kg = 4.2
V-dot = 57 ('09-'10) and 55/56 ('05-'08)
Course selection is obviously critical. I have much better success at IMC than I do at IMAZ. Also, the tougher the conditions the better I do. I can suffer pretty well.
Thanks, Chris
Thanks Bill! I actually didn't realize I did that well compared the pro men, I just assumed almost all of them were faster then I was on the bike. The flip side to that is thanks to you I now I know that 25 AGers beat me on the bike and I have some work to do before I return
Sorry to get off topic Chad, but I think you have recieved a number of great examples of the numbers, just shoot for the average of the examples that were shared, do the work and focus on the details of race execution and race selection.
Chris's number are very inline with what I would consider what Men 25-49 need in order to get a spot at most races.
Thanks for all the great post!
I agree with Matt above and Chris. I won my AG in a couple sprints, OLy, and Muncie Endurathon (Half) last year but all these are pretty much local races with the exception of Muncie and my FTP last year was 272 (w/kg of 4.2 or 4.3 I think) and Vdot of 57.
Now the big races and IM are a little different. Not going to win with those numbers (I'm working on that this year) but may place top 5 to 10. IMLou i screwed the run up and didn't learn how to pee on the bike so that cost 8 minutes. So I may add to the others there are the little things (small minutes) to look at too. Like Mancona had like a 2 minute or less transition an Wis. and that essentially won him his age group. So for us guys that are getting close to the numbers needed to qualify the small things add up big time. Oh and too you need the stars to align right and a little Rich Luckiness on your side.