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Tom Spinner's Micro Thread

tspinner21tspinner21
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Hey coach! I completed my Bike TT yesterday and used the calculator to determine my training zones.

I'm slightly confused...

When I compared these zones to say my heart rate reserve model they seem grossly different.

Training

Zone		 HR Reserve

Model 		 EN HR Model 
Z5   181-188 165-168 
 Z4  163-180  153-163
 Z3  145-162  147-153
 Z2  110-144  129-147
 Z1  94-109  107-129

 

I was able to complete the bike work out last week( 3 x 1' (1') Z4; 5 x 1' (1') Z5; remainder Z3) and it was tough but, I was able to hit it see the link below:

https://www.strava.com/activities/313085548

the EN Training zones just seems low to me, as I'm used to training at the higher levels. Honestly I'm smiling secretly on the inside, but i'm worried I won't be training hard enough.

Yes, I trust EN on the zones I'd love your input!!

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Comments

  • Coach PatrickCoach Patrick
    Tom, two things.

    1) It's about sustainable effort, not just "A" workout. So you can keep your old zones but if you start seeing that you can't do the work as required, you might have to dial them back...deal?

    2). You should only have ONE MICRO THREAD. Call it Thom Spinner's Micro. This way I can keep track of you in one place (see others here). If you post 4 questions in 4 places it's bad for you and me... image
  • tspinner21tspinner21

    Coach Thanks! I just noticed that and started began a constant thread in the Marco Thread today.

    That being said, this will now serve as my micro thread! 

    I will try the new zones for a week or two to see how I feel. I can say when I was using my old zones on the mile repeats... it was hard! I kept topping out of Z4 to Z5 and the overall pace was dropping.

    take a look at that workout and let me know what you think

    https://www.strava.com/activities/311201980


    Here was another thread I had asked a question:

    Posted By Thomas Spinner on 29 May 2015 05:03 PM 

    So in lieu of waiting until week 12 of the SC plan, I'm going to use Week 8 this week to establish my base line.

    Saturday: the HR bike TT (Tuesday workout) --- I have some bike issues (No top chain ring), so I'll see what I can get done. Completed

    Sunday: Rest/Core Social Ride ~17miles easy 13.3mph

    Monday: HR Run TT (Thursday workout) --- I have enough time to complete at lunch! :-) Moved to Tuesday (Grad school monday night... forgot after the holiday, I would've been dead for class )

    Tuesday: Swim TT --- I'm concerned about my back doing the 1000-yrd swim (can I do a 500 yrd instead?) Completed the HR Run TT, Swim TT to be moved to Thursday

    Wednesday: Rest/Core

    Thursday: do the Saturday bike at lunch (only 90min time limits) then run in the evening Swim TT now planed

    Friday: Sunday workout with the mile repeats. No Change

    Saturday: Rest/Core 

    Sunday suggestions? normally I would've expected to swim, but my back my not approve.... Saturday bike now planned

    Thoughts appreciated!!


    Also Testing summary update:

    Coach here is the testing follow-up:
    Bike TT: 40min; 11.71miles (avg speed of 17.3mph and avg HR of 165bpm) 
    Strava url: https://www.strava.com/activities/314750845
    Run TT: 5k; 32min 55sec with an avg HR of 164bpm
    Strava url: https://www.strava.com/activities/316903124/overview 

    now that I buried you (sorry for the multiple threads) we should be straight now 

    Thanks!

    -Tom

     

  • tspinner21tspinner21

    Coach Thanks! I just noticed that and started began a constant thread in the Marco Thread today.

    That being said, this will now serve as my micro thread! 

    I will try the new zones for a week or two to see how I feel. I can say when I was using my old zones on the mile repeats... it was hard! I kept topping out of Z4 to Z5 and the overall pace was dropping.

    take a look at that workout and let me know what you think

    https://www.strava.com/activities/311201980


    Here was another thread I had asked a question:

    Posted By Thomas Spinner on 29 May 2015 05:03 PM 

    So in lieu of waiting until week 12 of the SC plan, I'm going to use Week 8 this week to establish my base line.

    Saturday: the HR bike TT (Tuesday workout) --- I have some bike issues (No top chain ring), so I'll see what I can get done. Completed

    Sunday: Rest/Core Social Ride ~17miles easy 13.3mph

    Monday: HR Run TT (Thursday workout) --- I have enough time to complete at lunch! :-) Moved to Tuesday (Grad school monday night... forgot after the holiday, I would've been dead for class )

    Tuesday: Swim TT --- I'm concerned about my back doing the 1000-yrd swim (can I do a 500 yrd instead?) Completed the HR Run TT, Swim TT to be moved to Thursday

    Wednesday: Rest/Core

    Thursday: do the Saturday bike at lunch (only 90min time limits) then run in the evening Swim TT now planed

    Friday: Sunday workout with the mile repeats. No Change

    Saturday: Rest/Core 

    Sunday suggestions? normally I would've expected to swim, but my back my not approve.... Saturday bike now planned

    Thoughts appreciated!!


    Also Testing summary update:

    Coach here is the testing follow-up:
    Bike TT: 40min; 11.71miles (avg speed of 17.3mph and avg HR of 165bpm) 
    Strava url: https://www.strava.com/activities/314750845
    Run TT: 5k; 32min 55sec with an avg HR of 164bpm
    Strava url: https://www.strava.com/activities/316903124/overview 

    now that I buried you (sorry for the multiple threads) we should be straight now 

    Thanks!

    -Tom

     

  • Coach PatrickCoach Patrick
    Tom - Thanks for consolidating them..I replied to your other ones re the week schedule (looks good!)...now, looking at that workout, when you see the pace drop like that you are clearly over-reaching. A good workout is constantly hard; I’d like Interval #2 to be within 3 to 5% of Interval #1…while I can’t see the actual intervals, it’s clear to see that the end of your run was nothing like the start…Here’s an example from Scott Giljum, look at his two repeats: http://app.strava.com/activities/229933496
  • tspinner21tspinner21

    Posted By Coach Patrick on 05 Jun 2015 05:45 AM


    Tom - Thanks for consolidating them..I replied to your other ones re the week schedule (looks good!)...now, looking at that workout, when you see the pace drop like that you are clearly over-reaching. A good workout is constantly hard; I’d like Interval #2 to be within 3 to 5% of Interval #1…while I can’t see the actual intervals, it’s clear to see that the end of your run was nothing like the start…Here’s an example from Scott Giljum, look at his two repeats: http://app.strava.com/activities/229933496

    Great feedback Coach!! 

    I will focus on that this run, which is on flat terrain this time! I'll use the new zones and paces and we'll see how this shakes out.

    Also, a note i'm using the polar M400 watch which has an interval timer. so Lap 1 is the first interval, Lap 2 is rest, Lap 3 Int#2, Lap 4, rest, and the remaining laps are the Z3 attempt.

    -Tom

  • tspinner21tspinner21

    Posted By Thomas Spinner on 05 Jun 2015 10:04 AM

    Posted By Coach Patrick on 05 Jun 2015 05:45 AM


    Tom - Thanks for consolidating them..I replied to your other ones re the week schedule (looks good!)...now, looking at that workout, when you see the pace drop like that you are clearly over-reaching. A good workout is constantly hard; I’d like Interval #2 to be within 3 to 5% of Interval #1…while I can’t see the actual intervals, it’s clear to see that the end of your run was nothing like the start…Here’s an example from Scott Giljum, look at his two repeats: http://app.strava.com/activities/229933496

    Great feedback Coach!! 

    I will focus on that this run, which is on flat terrain this time! I'll use the new zones and paces and we'll see how this shakes out.

    Also, a note i'm using the polar M400 watch which has an interval timer. so Lap 1 is the first interval, Lap 2 is rest, Lap 3 Int#2, Lap 4, rest, and the remaining laps are the Z3 attempt.

    -Tom

    Coach,
    Take a look at this mile repeats workout
    https://www.strava.com/activities/318979435/laps

    I think that's what you are looking for correct?
    Two big questions for you....
    1. When doing the long bike outdoors how do I handle hills with the intervals?
    2. For next tuesday (going to SC wk 13) how do I handle the swim? I was sucessfully able to handle the 1000 yrd TT in the 10 X 100yrd w/ 10sec rest (https://www.strava.com/activities/318359421). How would you break up the:  'WU: 200 MS1: 2 x 400(30") @ your goal race pace minus 2 to 3"" 2 x 300(30") @ your goal race pace minus 2 to 3"" 2 x 200(30") @ your goal race pace minus 2 to 3"" Set Total: 2000 CD: 100 Easy Total: ~2100'?????
      1. Coach Note: OPTIONAL swim, if you feel like you need the additional frequency of 3 vs 2 swims per week
    Let me know.
    Thanks!

    -Tom

  • tspinner21tspinner21

    Coach P, I've been online for about 30mins for the check in call and I hope you are ok as I have not heard from you either by phone or text message.

    Please let me know when we can reschedule as I do have some questions on training and race execution.

    Also, can you please provide some feedback on the Swim for SCwk13? can it be broken down into more "shorter" intervals? I was able to compete the swim TT with the 10 x 100 yards without any back issues (guess it helps me feel safe).

    Thanks, Tom. 

  • Coach PatrickCoach Patrick
    Tom, sorry for the confusion. I didn't see anyone on the call so I didn't show up...last few times it has just been me for an hour listening to that lonely beep that tells you no one else is there. I have weekly office hours today, info on the dashboard. For reference, one of the coaches has office hours every week...that info is updated on the dashboard and you are welcome to join that. And of course, you can schedule a call with me as needed...My schedule is online here: http://meetme.so/patrickmccrann -- Please remember to include your phone number.

    As far as the swim goes, all swims should be broken down to be sustainable for you, esp given your back. As you continue across the plan you'll want to get in a few longer swim intervals in the last 2-3 weeks of your plan...but those usually come about by sacrificing some form so I don't want it to happen yet! image

    Chat soon!
  • tspinner21tspinner21

    Hey Coach P, 

    No sweat, I'm in the world of project management I get it when things go not as planned 

    I'll call in today on my way to the bike shop. I have to get my bike fixed as I've been limping it long enough since the race dibocile with the front derailer cable jammed inside the shifter. Only have a 42 chainring and a 25 in the cassett doesn't not make a good climb (avg 5% with peaks of 15%) for someone over 245 lbs! 

    Workout schedule this week:

     

    I'm using SC week 11 this week (since 12 is testing), next week I'll jump into SC week 13.

    couple scheduling issues, therefore I propose the following:

    Monday rest

    Tuesday core

    Wednesday: Tuesday Brick.... and yes my legs where twitching through the night!

    Thursday: supposed to be swim however, i'll get a stretching and core session. I've had scheduling issues and I need to get the bike to the shop.

    Friday: I'm assuming a swim (which one?)

    Saturday: Sunday's workout (2 x 1.5 mile @ Z4 (4' @ Z1) with the remainder in Z3)

    Sunday Saturday's long bike w/ brick

    Let me know your thoughts.

    Thanks!

    -Tom

     

  • tspinner21tspinner21

     

    my bike is out of commission until Tuesday next week..... Can you look at my last post and help me organize the proposed schedule to accommodate? 

    Enjoy the lake placid training!!

  • Coach PatrickCoach Patrick
    Tom, are you back on track? Sorry was in full Placid mode!
  • tspinner21tspinner21
    Coach back seems ok after yesterday's swim (only got the 6 x 150's in due to time). However, I'm not able to get my long run in today. Should I take today as my rest day and do the long run on Monday?
  • tspinner21tspinner21
    Coach my back seems ok after yesterday's swim (only got the 6 x 150's in due to time). However I am able to get the long run in today. As my wife had her Zumba class and we have a party to go to today.

    Should I take today as my rest day and get the long run in on Monday? Thoughts?
  • tspinner21tspinner21
    Coach my back seems ok after yesterday's swim (only got the 6 x 150's in due to time). However I am able to get the long run in today. As my wife had her Zumba class and we have a party to go to today.

    Should I take today as my rest day and get the long run in on Monday? Thoughts?
  • Coach PatrickCoach Patrick
    Tom, for day of stuff, you should text me: (617) 513-3830 Cell Phone (EST Time) ...what did you end up doing?
  • tspinner21tspinner21
    Hey Coach P! I'm back on the radar (intentionally!) for a month to get my bearings straightened out for 2016!

    Testing this week, been buried so far with work and school. Trainer just showed up today I hope to have it together after class tonight. If that pans out as well as getting Trainer Road setup tonight I will attempt to do the power test tomorrow morning and the 5k on Saturday.

    It will be day to day here. If things go crazy how should I incorporate testing next week?

  • Coach PatrickCoach Patrick
    Tom you can just do Monday off, the bike test on Tues, Wednesday short easy aerobic run of 30', Thursday is your run test, Friday off, then Weekend as Planned!!!!!

    Enjoy all that new technology!!!!!! image

    Ps great to have you back!
  • tspinner21tspinner21

    Thanks Coach! Super Pumped for this year coming!

  • tspinner21tspinner21

    Hey Coach, that sounds like a plan for testing next week. 

    For the rest of this week, what should I do? Last WKO was a long ride on Sunday (2 hours on  a spin bike). 

    Also, I was digging around the medical help about my knee and how to deal with colds (damn head cold that brings a cough).

    Appreciate the advice!

     

  • Coach PatrickCoach Patrick
    Tom, I'll to any kind of activity after your testing week. Remember we're just trying to establish healthy baseline from which we can work on the rest of the season. Keep me posted about your health! Remember the most important thing can do is to help you make sure getting enough sleep.
  • tspinner21tspinner21

    Posted By Coach Patrick on 02 Nov 2015 09:53 AM


    Tom, I'll to any kind of activity after your testing week. Remember we're just trying to establish healthy baseline from which we can work on the rest of the season. Keep me posted about your health! Remember the most important thing can do is to help you make sure getting enough sleep.

    Coach, I'm confused by your first sentence "I'll to any kind of activity after your testing week" can you elaborate?

    Thanks! I just posted in the Macro to Coach R and I had a case of the Monday Typos too! Thank god we can edit

  • tspinner21tspinner21

    Coach I've been looking over the NOS 2016 Plan and given my schedule constraints (Saturday SAU Day & Wednesday Grad School Classes) this is what I've come up with:

    Nomenclature: R30-strides; R60S-O'SteadyO' Run;  R60H-O'HardO' Run;  BT-Tuesday Bike;  BR-Thursday Bike;  BSAT-Saturday Bike

    This seems to fit my schedule, pitfalls I foresee, will be the Friday morning Bike... to mitigate, I'll only do the MS on Thursday period (no extra).

    Thoughts???

    -Tom

  • tspinner21tspinner21

    Coach P,

    Finally feeling better the past two days!!

    All my gear is in for trainer road as well, fired it up last night and hammered out the wk 2 NOS bike intervals. 

    Looking for a little feedback on the results to help me get into the right mindset for the rest of NOS.

     

    I was using 3 sec power smoothing (is this a "good" setting) I was able to hit everything (I haven't tested yet just assumed FTP to be 280). 

    Is this to erratic for the power? I seem to struggle with it bouncing ±15 watts... (I'm sure that needs to change , or maybe its like this since i'm using Virtual Power) but either way if you can give your feedback and maybe an example or two so I can lock in what needs to happen that would be supper awesome!!

    Thanks!

  • Coach PatrickCoach Patrick
    Tom, WELL DONE! I like your "periodic chart" layout and it seems to be just right with the flow of work and rest. Now you just have to do it...let me know how it goes. image

    ~ Coach P
  • tspinner21tspinner21

    Posted By Coach Patrick on 06 Nov 2015 08:44 AM


    Tom, WELL DONE! I like your "periodic chart" layout and it seems to be just right with the flow of work and rest. Now you just have to do it...let me know how it goes.



    ~ Coach P

    Thanks Coach! Next week, I'm going to test. I'll take monday off, tuesday bike test, wednesday strides run, and thursday Run Test (on a dreadmill). Friday off, weekend as planed.

    The following week, I'll drop into wk 4 as planned 

    LET's DO THIS!! 

  • tspinner21tspinner21

    Ok.... Not sure if this should be here or in the general training forum... let me know for future.

    I'm taking a leap of faith here coach on my Run test and trusting the calculator 

    I ended up with a 33:45 5k time at 1.0% incline on the dreadmill.... I'm not used to running with an incline, especially testing on a DREADMILL....

    Given that I'm struggling with my last run test... but, I do know that I switched over from the un-balanced/run focused Half Marathon plan and that last run test back in Sept that was 29:29 was outside on a flat out and back with 55°F weather...

    after that test I switched over the bike focus plan and hammered out (which based on my bike test paid off! with FTP @329w  ) however, I guess my run dropped a bit. It was needed though with the knee and back.

    given that do you have any further guidance (reassurances lol... need a pep talk after that) maybe one session a week on the dreadmill with the incline just to get used to it?

    Let me know. Thanks!

  • Coach PatrickCoach Patrick
    TS, the dreadmill sucks, plain and simple. Very few folks run well on it...I certainly don't...for me it's less about absolute performance (hitting outdoor time) but rather the delta. If my test was 30:00, then what can I do in 8 weeks? Can I get to 28? If I want to get to 28, I have to run 3 x 8:35s, so let me hit 8:35s in my interval WKO...or work towards 8:35s...

    Does that help?
  • tspinner21tspinner21

    Sorry about that coach... the evil texting thumbs struck again..

    I just handed bombs at work, a final exam this week, and lord only knows what the fam. & holiday pressure will throw my way..

    Can you help line me out with the bare mins WKO this week? This is going to be rough... bright side at least the school stress will be off until mid January.

    Health update:

    Got my Saturday bike in (hit all the intervals), but I think it did more harm than good. Had to call off the OhardO run yesterday due to coughing and hacking ! This cold is really starting to aggravate me... 

     

  • tspinner21tspinner21

    Posted By Coach Patrick on 12 Nov 2015 11:32 PM


    TS, the dreadmillI sucks, plain and simple. Very few folks run well on it...I certainly don't...for me it's less about absolute performance (hitting outdoor time) but rather the delta. If my test was 30:00, then what can I do in 8 weeks? Can I get to 28? If I want to get to 28, I have to run 3 x 8:35s, so let me hit 8:35s in my interval WKO...or work towards 8:35s...



    Does that help?

    I think so coach. When I ran on Friday evening (did the Saturday brick run on Friday, logistics ). the new zones felt really easy, normally my HR is up in the Z3 to Z4 for majority of the runs, however, I olny broke into Z4 HR for maybe a min at the end. Run felt great even in the 15 mph gusts as headwind. depending on how consistent the training is over the next month I'll probably target my next test as (mile 1: 11:00min/mile, mile 2: 10:30min/mile, mile 3+.1: either just hold onto 10:30min/mile or push...) we'll see what happens.

  • tspinner21tspinner21

    Coach, 

     

    Studying kept me up late last night so I scrapped the morning bike and since tomorrow is the final i'll be scrapping tonight as well (maybe by the grace of God I can get a quick 20min run in... but I don't think that's going to happen).

    I'll plan on getting back into it on Thursday.

    So the plan will be Thursday am bike/brick run in the evening. Core Friday Sat AM Bike(maybe a quick brick, fingers crossed) & Sunday AM OhardO.

    Then I can actually get on the normal schedule after that! Thank God! Let me know if think I need anything else.

    Also, coughing is backing off today, I'm wondering if there is an Indoor Air Quality issue in my garage. Maybe that's what is causing this cold to go on forever.... (I know the extra stress isn't helping either).

     

    Any thoughts please let me know. Thanks!

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