IMCDA Week 17
Took the entire weekend off to do b-day, family, etc. Opening up with a confirmation that my FTP is accurate after 2nd test in 3 weeks, now 270. Goal is to hit every workout this week after two weeks of skipping too many. 3 hour run! That will be a first.
Good luck folks.
DS
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IM Week 17 PSA: Look carefully at the instructions for Thursday's long run. The ONLY people who HAVE to run for 3 hours are those who have a LRP slower than 12:30/mile. And if your LRP is faster than 8:20, stop @ 18 miles, no matter how little time that takes. People in between (most of us) have a decision to make, per the Coaches' instructions. Personally, last year when training for CDA, I did this run as a split long run, 12 @ MP in 1:39 in the AM, 6 @ LRP in 54 in the PM, total of 18 mi in 2:33. Then, for Arizona in the fall, I did 17.25 miles in 2:28.
IMO, slogging along for more than 2.5 hours serves no purpose other than to bash up your legs so that the weekend's rides become problematic in terms of their usefulness.
DS
Doug - some input to consider. First, what the Coaches say in the Wiki (Long Run Training, EN Version) [Emphasis added in bold]:
"IM Run Fitness has nothing to do with your longest run.
This is a hold over from open marathon training, where folks are training to run hard for the whole event; in this case it makes sense to build that solid pace up to a long run of 20-21 miles. In an IM, however, we are training to not slow down on the run. Let me repeat that: Marathon training = go fast on run; IM training = don’t slow down. Instead of being a marathon runner aiming for a pace (8:00 per mile, who cares about HR zones!), you are a triathlete who aims for an HR, not a pace. Race day is a great equalizer; most people end up running an IM at their easy long run pace (roughly 20 beats below LTHR). So instead of looking at a magical distance marker, we look at time. In the case of an IM training cycle. the peak run that a person can do during the typical race preparation week is 2.5 hours in Zone Two. Anything longer (or harder) starts to become a problem regarding recovery and overall running health. Can you run 24 miles in training for an IM? Yes. But when you are out there on the course, no one is saying, “Sure am glad I did that 24-mile run @ week 18, it’s really helping me now!!!”
IM Run Fitness is about Frequency, Durability, and Consistency
If you have grasped the concept that your total aerobic engine, developed across three disciplines, is what drives your run, we have almost converted you. While the longest run peaks out at 2.5 hours, that doesn’t mean you aren’t running a lot; in your biggest run weeks, you’ll do 5+ hours of running — that’s a lot, especially when you add it on top of swim and bike time. With the EN model of Iron-distance training, we work first to build durability by increasing run volume deliberately. Then we add “speed” in the form of strides and fartlek work. Once this is accomplished, we back off the intensity and start to increase the distance. When we move to the race preparation phase, “tempo” workouts move from being closer to 10k Pace and instead move to Half Marathon Pace."
Some very successful EN IMers extoll the use of a split run to help with two things: (a) minimize the inevitable muscle degradation that occurs when running longer than 2 hours and (b) help build durability by forcing some of the run on recovering legs. Specifically, I'm thinking of Coach P,and John Withrow, both of whom have used split long runs in their training recently to great effect. Last year I went on the micro forum and asked Coach P for advice about how to do split runs. It might be worth a quick note to him for his comments.
See, EG, this thread, noting Coach R;s comments at the end: http://members.endurancenatio...spx#195457
Finally, I would really like to dispel the illusion that one must run for 3 hours in training in order to be ready to run 4+ hours on race day. It is just not true. You're much better off getting in a quality 2.5 hour run, than slogging thru three hours, from all sorts of perspectives: physical effects, emotional fatigue, ability to stay in the training plan in the days following. I feel like saying, "'Ive gone thru the pain and misery, so you don't have to." It wasn't until I dropped my long runs from 3 down to 2.2-2.6 hours that I started having successful IM runs. Also, I added short walking breaks every mile during those long runs. The combination kept me fresher for both that run itself, and the subsequent workouts the following week. You're paying the coaches big $$ for their knowledge and experience training literally 1,000s of IM athletes. Go back and re-read that section in bold above that they wrote in the wiki. It's the truth, and worth every penny that you're paying them.
Specific to your question, when I do a long run, it is usually split 60/40, or maybe 67/33 morning evening, covering between the two sessions the work prescribed in the Long Run for that week. I usually will only do this for the longest run, one that will take me more than 2:15 to finish.
Just checking in after a pretty big week with a camp at IMCDA on one end and and IMC on the other.
The IMCDA camp didn't go that well with thunder an lightning on one of the ride days though I did get an 18 miler in. I overcooked my RR ride there - was just seeing if I could hold a higher than prescribed wattage and no, I can't do that and run!
In Whistler I did get 2 x 105 done followed by a long run on the third day and I'm feeling great about that. I'll take that execution target back to IMCDA for the race.
Yesterday just did yoga and today only a swim. Back at it tomorrow.
Cheers!
Week has been going pretty well, and looking forward to the last few big sessions!! After doing almost 20hrs last week, I've been mailing it in a bit over the last couple of days. Swam Monday, Ran yesterday vice FTP test, Swam and will do 2x15FTP on trainer tonight before nailing the long run tomorrow. Not necessarily sure if I'm going to split the run, but for now, the plan is do it all at once. I did a 15/5 split last Thursday, and felt pretty good about the work I was getting in; I won't do 20 this week though!
Don't believe I am going to retest the bike this week, and probably not before the race. I don't think it is going to show any huge jump, and I think I'm pretty dialed in right now to where my fitness on the bike is at. I'll revisit that thought at mile 18 on race day:o)
I posted another thread reference our Race Webinar with Coach P next week; be sure to sign up ~ he does a great job of laying out this course and what our approach should be in the days leading up.
Mark
Well...at least my run didn't bloody me up
Ran 17.7 in about 2:47 ~ waited till later in the day to get some running in the "heat," if you can call 73 degrees hot. Lost about 3.5lbs on the run, so definitely need to drink more consistently. Think I may have ran a bit too conservatively, but I haven't mastered the whole not slow down thing yet, so telling myself if I want to get all jiggy with it and run hard, wait till mile 18 on...though at CDA, my ok to run harder point is going to be after the last little climb after hitting the turn-around the second time - planning to run Z1+30 to this point as well at the beginning - probably closer to 7 miles than 6.
Anyhoo ~ going to get interesting around here with getting workouts in as i prepare the household to move, close out things at work, and the million things that go along with moving across the country.
Mark
I got it in - 18mi. New distance record for me. I could not afford a split run today and I was also happy to run test in hotish weather (Mark - McDonalds clocked it at 79 degrees at 5pm).
I guess I am happy with it - having never run a marathon before, or an IM, I am only beginning to taste "The Suck". Body responded well until about mile 14-15. Thats when the right arch began throbbing, the right hip IT/bursa starting aching, the left hamstring tightened up. None of this stopped me (woo hoo!), but my best finishing effort is MP+30s* currently, no matter how I play the first 6, and I definitely slowed down for those last few miles. My self talk was quite obsessed with getting to the mile marker so I could walk 10-15 steps. That last mile results reeks of mental weakness. Not exactly a confidence boost. 26 miles seems like a long way off, particularly since I did not travel 114.4 miles prior to this run.
Stats:
Time: 2:43
Elevation: 801ft total gain, 738 loss
First 6 miles: 56 minutes, Ave pace ~9:18, ave HR 142 (hit pace goal perfectly*, HR a touch higher than last three long runs - heat?)
Last 12 miles: 1:47, ave pace ~8:50, ave HR ~154
Last mile: 9:35
*My pacing goals are a total hack. I am in between converting from a "pace athlete" to an "HR athlete" I think. I appear to be trapped in a sprinter's body (+15lbs of fat). My last 5K TT results in a VDOT of 49, but this results in a totally unsustainable LRP, let alone MP for me on the long run. So, I plugged into the calculator my 13.1 time from a few weeks ago, which was representative of my "long distance" ability/plan, but this generates a LRP of 10:11 (which seems way slow, HR living in the 120s) and MP of 8:50 (which seems sustainable except I do not yet fully appreciated the consequences of running a long time with HR in the 155 range).
I am working this weekend, not sure how much of the 8hr of bike I will get done, but hopeful.
DS
I'm hacking my run a bit as well ~ more what I'm pretty confident I can do my 5K in versus what I did at end of the out season...I've gotten quite a bit lighter and quicker. Anyway, all judgements/hacks should be made on the safe side of the equation. Marathons are f'in hard! IM marathons...well, slower pace, but that whole 7-8 hour warmup seems to take a bit out of you:o) I've run 5-6 marathons and 7-9 ultras; and the mental fortitude to finish strong in those does not even compare to what it takes to finish strong on the IM marathon. The line in the race execution plan is real, and the more conservative you can be early, the farther down the road that line is pushed. Running 20" faster in the first 6 miles could very easily equal an extra 60-120" per mile later on.
This will be my 3d IM, and I've yet to have been able to not be taking short walking breaks other than at aid stations in the last 3-5 miles - it might not be much walking, but I always, always look back and thought I could've just HTFU. This is my year to beat those last miles ~ I might look like Julie Moss coming across the finish, but I'm looking forward to the gut check, especially now that it is in writing
I wandered a bit there, as usual. Not preaching, just my 2 cents in of us all striving for the best executed race.
Mark
prefer warm water. hate being cold on the bike. cool running is great.
hot day would be fine with me. would be better than the recent texas race.
A reminder: extremes from my 10 CDA races: 98F/48F (at the start of the run!); 0 wind/20-30 mph S wind; lake 57F/70F; Bright sun/overcast; Thunderstorm/drizzle/dry.
And, the weather can change without much more than 24-36 hours warning, across all those variables above. Meaning: bring everything you think you might need for any condition (except snow - we haven't seen snow), and don't assume anything until the morning of the race.
yee hah.
so if wind, the prevailing is south? we can expect tailwind for finishing the bike?
Yup, south by southwest most common; makes for a fun ride home on both the swim and bike. But creates the need to keep aero/head down up the hills x 20 miles into the wind. But again, "anything is possible". This is, after all, an Ironman
But today is a new day. I am very doubtful I will get 3-5 hours to commit to a bike, but will sit on it whenever the time allows.
Oh yeah, and I weighed in at 186 yesterday. Basically a 10lbs loss since St George. Haven't seen that kinda number since around 2009.
Good luck y'all
DS
i find that unexpected rest is often a good thing. the hay is in the barn.
great weekend. i was worried last week about my recoverey and labile heart rate. but i think i am doing good.
five hour bike on saturday with record NP.
20 mile split run on sunday. first 13 miles was worried about weird heart rate but was actually problems with heart rate strap. 7 miles in the PM bang on.
too bad race was not yesterday.
any chance the water will be above 76? my swim skin is ripped.
maybe to Horseshoe lake in Gig Harbor for open water tomorrow.