JW's Supplementation Thread

Coach Rich

John Withrow's supplementation protocol, posting this here from another thread. 

Input, thoughts and experiences?

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Last yr during my heavy training/racing I took supplementation to the extreme.  I know this guy named Tim Cronk who doesn't supplement at all and he seems to do okay.  But, I believe that for normal people going through everyday life, simply eating good, wholesome, real food should supply all of the nutrients we need to be healthy.  Newsflash, the demands we put on our bodies through IM training and racing is NOT NORMAL (considering our long history as human beings).  I think that most IM triathletes are deficient in Magnesium and Vitamin-D (yes, the stuff we supposedly get from sun exposure) to name a few (and our vegan and vegetarian friends are likely also deficient in the Vitamin-B complex).   Also, another thing that kills training/racing mojo is getting sick.  And like it our not, our immune systems get weaker with heavy training, especially during periods of massive negative TSB or fast changes in stress (and how many people do you know who have gotten sick during their taper?).  So a lot of my supplementation was to "try" to help my body avoid that.

My supplementation can be broken down into 3 main categories:  1) Soft tissue loading and recovery 2) Immune Support 3) Vitality and Longevity  (some of them get lumped together or cross-over multiple categories)

In my "reduced training mode" that I'm currently in, I still take: Omega-3, L-Glutamine, Magnesium, Vitamin-D, Vitamin-C

My regiment last yr during extreme training/racing I took the following: 

Morning (after workout):  Omega-3, L-Glutamine, Magnesium, Vitamin-D, Optygen HP, Adrenal Support, Coconut Oil, Vitamin-B Complex, CoQ-10, Curcumin, Vitamin-C, Niacin, baby aspirin, Bitter Melon, Resveritrol

I would also often put L-Glutamine, MCT Oil and Collagen Protein Powder http://tinyurl.com/o6kqnsv either in a recovery shake or simply sprinkle it onto my morning omelet. 

After huge workouts (and in T2 of Ironman races) I would also smear Magnesium lotion onto my quads and calves http://tinyurl.com/p3ua4ly This gets quickly absorbed through the skin directly into the muscles you are trying to keep supple...

Most mornings I would drink a LifeShotz Original http://tinyurl.com/nt27f2g (which meant I could skip the B-Complex) and for most other meals I drank Emergen-C http://tinyurl.com/nqwuekd 

With Lunch:  Omega-3, L-Glutamine, Magnesium, Adrenal Support, Coconut Oil, Vitamin-C

Before Bed: Omega-3, L-Glutamine, Magnesium, Coconut Oil    (I found that this combination actually helped to promote better sleep as well)

A couple other "supplement" things I do are the following:  The day before an IM, I pre-load with about the number of salt sticks that I expect to use the next day during the race (say ~10 or so).  I also take 4-6 Calcium and Magnesium Pills as well as 10-15 Amino Acids pills the day before.  There are some who believe that a low level of Amino Acids in the bloodstream can lead to our Central Governor (our brain) to start to shut (or slow) our body down (a.k.a. Bonk).  So during my races, I supplement with Amino Acids (~3-4 per hour) on the bike and on the run as well as Ca/Mg and salt sticks.  Here are the "MAP" Amino Acids I use:   http://tinyurl.com/qgygfpr 

If you are going to take Omega 3 (which I highly recommend for everyone, even kids) Please do NOT take the cheap crap you will find on the shelves of Walmart or CVS.  I think you should be buying high quality supplements in general, but espesially with Omega 3.  Here's the one I take:  http://tinyurl.com/omhoeh8 

I also supplement with Probiotics in the week leading up to my IM.  I get the kind you refrigerate from a high quality health store and take them throughout the week.  I also mix in the dry pills (linked below) which are easier to travel to the race with.  I'm trying to give my gut biome every chance it can to be in a happy place come race day...

In no particular order, here are links to the other supplements that I take/took:

http://www.amazon.com/Thorne-Resear...m+capsules

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...&psc=1 

http://www.amazon.com/Solgar-L-Glut...+glutamine

http://www.amazon.com/Vital-Nutrien...al+support

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...ge_o04_s00

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...ge_o00_s00

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...ge_o04_s00

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...ge_o01_s00

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...ge_o02_s00

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...ge_o00_s00

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...ge_o07_s00

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...ge_o05_s00

Dino Sarti

To each his own. I have heard wonderful things about supplements, but I have also heard that too much is hard on your systems. Your body was designed run without that stuff over the course of millions of years of evolution or by the divine hand of an all powerful creator as recently as 6,000 years ago (depending on your beliefs). In neither case are either assumed to have gotten it wrong.

I know we push ourselves very hard. Some ridiculously hard (yes, you guys know who I am looking at). So an argument is made that you need more "stuff". I understand that.

I also understand "better living through chemistry" and I am huge fan of modern medicine and science to increase performance. But, I think all this "stuff" can cause liver and kidney complications akin to "too much of a good thing".

All that being said, trying layout both side of the argument, I am just too lazy to take all that stuff regularly.  Sounds exhausting to keep up with it all...  

Ed Eovino

OH boy... I thought I was pushing the envelope with my post-WO Whey protein shake!

tim cronk

Well I think there are 2 reasons to supplement... 1. is if you are deficient...2. would be if you think it would improve health/recovery/etc

I take a Vegan 1 a day multivitamin and a Vegan Iron supplement...

I have been tested for low Iron (before changing to a Vegan diet 6 years ago) and my understanding is most athletes will test low for Iron due to sweat loss....I have also been tested for all vitamin/minerals after 3yrs of a Vegan diet and had ZERO deficiencies noted other than IRON again.... So I continue to take IRON supplement...

The multivitamin is just an insurance policy , which probably isn't even necessary.

Other than that I focus on just plant food with lots of variety and color every day......

Nate Parady

I just recently ramped up supplements.

I take a B complex, Anti Oxidant, Multivitamin, calcium, Protein shake.

the vitamins are all in powder form which I mix with water and then drink for better absorption.

I also concur that buying stuff at CVS or Walmart is not the way to go. you get what you pay for in my opinion.

Robert Sabo

There was a study recently (sorry I don't have the reference) that showed taking excess anti-oxidants(ie Vitamin C) will decrease your bodies natural production of anti-oxidants.

Robert Sabo

I have been meaning to ask the team if anybody uses the blood testing company ( inside tracker ?) that is a team sponsor. Maybe RnP should do a podcast with those guys and talk about deficiency guided supplementation.

MattAaronson

Personally I don't do any supplements other than salt stick pills the day before and during races.

To each their own...I think this is one area where you'll get wildly different and highly entrenched viewpoints and I'm not sure you'll find a great correlation between performance and supplement regimens.

ezellrh

IMHO, the most prudent approach to this is Tim's supplementation based on a diagnosed deficiency. Some of the supplements noted above (vitamin D and magnesium for example) can actually be toxic if taken in excess of the body's requirement and what it gets from other sources. Mapping over generalized statements, "most triathletes are deficient in x", can be dangerous to individual subjects and lead to undesired outcomes.

Stephanie Hartmann

A good read on iron deficiency. http://breakingmuscle.com/nutrition/what-athletes-need-to-know-about-iron-deficiency

I try to get 10-20 minutes of sun exposure each day (vit d), and day-light at noonish for good sleep. Veggies etc. I have supplements on my counter top and I try to track my food intake. When I need to I'll take some oregano oil (vit c), magnesium, I have a decent b-complex that I take when I'm drinking more wine than I should. It's all rather hit or miss I think. I have had iron poor blood most of my life so I will take some occasionally. But if I'm getting iron in food (I happen to enjoy red meat, liver etc) I'll not take it as the body stores it and it's easy to get too much. I have a high white cell count and I just try to eat enough vegetables. I stopped eating wheat which seems to have generally helped with intestinal issues, sleep, and skin issues. I haven't had a multiple vial blood test in 3 years and since it was a nightmare trying to get THOSE 4 vials full, I think I'll wait a while. I will say that if you're going to take stuff, research the best TYPES to take. Not all magnesium supplements are easy to digest or available to the system. That goes double for iron.

Scott Alexander

Daily I take a multi-vitamin, glucosamine and coq10.
I also use glutamine (switching to BCAAs when I run out of that) and arginine in my daily smoothie breakfasts. When I don't get my daily smoothie, which has flaxseed, then I take an omega 3 fish pill (generic).

Mostly, I believe you should get all of what you need through food intake, unless you have a diagnosed deficiency, like Cronk said.