"Stuff" Above VO2

kimmydct

Yesterday I had some fun w my VO2 intervals. Prescribed wko was 7 x1.5' but I decided to get the work done as "whatever it takes to get some QOMs". So here's how it shook out:
6:32 @ 1.16IF; 55" @ 1.26IF, 49" @ 1.42IF; 1:15 @ 1.59IF

So it got me thinking....what does work above VO2 do? If FTP work raises the ceiling, and VO2 raises the roof, top does the neuromuscular stuff over VO2 raise the sky? We don't do any of this in EN WKOs so perhaps it's more applicable in cycling only type training? Just curious....

PS Got 2nd on those 2 QOMs so I'll be back next week.... I "own" the QOMs on that trail except these 2 and it's bugging me!

morpheus

Kim-

That kind of stuff has it's place but it's place might not be beneficial in tri training to peak for tri racing.

HIIT workouts can be used to maintain, even increase, FTP. It has to be very structured, though.

Going harder, busting through the roof on VO2 work, will make you stronger. Faster with short bursts. Hanging onto someone's wheel who just took off. Staying with a group that just started pounding some rolling hills. Stuff like that. Most cycling resources would call this work to improve your....sprinting. 5sec power or 30sec power stuff. Great for a cycling plan, not too big o' deal for a triathlete training plan.

It's not going to help you train that zone where we are trying to hold a certain effort for any duration. {This isn't a question about running after, just about 'what do we get out of it?}

There's a good reason that RnP hit our specific zones for our specific time lengths.

Personally, these are the bursts during our group rides that push me over the fatigue ledge after a few weeks of doing that. I tend to do most of our FTP and VO2 intervals and then throw in 1 or 2 group rides. You've already heard me whine about it. It's not the group rides that send me over the edge. It's all of those matches that are flaring off.

When I don't have a race that I'm trying to peak for, there's a little bit more of creative aspect to this kind of aggressive overreaching on watt goals. This time around was a bit different b/c I can't tell if I was overreaching for about 3 weeks or if I had a bug. But, as I get closer to the last 8 -10 weeks for my A race (in the Fall this year), I tend to try to stay in the zones.

During the run durability phases of last fall & winter, I implemented a 2x week very short HIIT bike session that actually had me going into the OS with numbers as good as when the last season ended. I believe I'll be repeating that in the pre-OS. But, in season, sticking to tri zone work b/c I'm not trying to get faster times on my group rides. I'm trying to get faster times in the few triathlons that I get to enter and race.

Sorry about the ramble.

You're getting stronger!

kimmydct

Thanks Chris. I don't do much of it, but when I saw the numbers, it made me think. I'm in the GF plan for a few weeks so it is prob OK, but once the real IM training starts, the QOMs will have to wait.

John Withrow

I kind of think going for QOM's is fine, even in the meat of IM training... It's all cumulative training stress during your rides. As long as you're not sand-bagging the rest of your ride just to nail these few segments, I think it's fine. Don't do it during your Race-Rehearsals or if you're practicing low VI rides. But personally, I never had enough "time in the days" to push in the TSS points that I wish I could push into my legs. Specific workouts targeting these efforts are much more suited for "cyclists" to be able to handle surges. But having fun hunting QOM's gives you added training stress and is simply fun. I personally like doing cool stuff with my fitness...

Coach Rich

In my experience, really hard riding (waaayyy over FTP) is nearly always good/makes you stronger. And the volume and structure of the IM plans tends to naturally put a governor on that sort of thing anyway. 

If you follow me on Strava, you'll see me do "UAC" quite a bit, Urban Assault Course. This is a fun ride to the top Lake Ave. I have 3 key segments that I track over time: a 5' very hard segment, a 1:20'ish ludicrous hard segment, up a wall basically, then an 18-20 FTP segment. It's a very fun way to hit all of my zones, to speak, with options to add Chantry on the front end (20' climb @ 6%), "Hasting Ranch Extra Credit" on the way back, giving me another 500-600ft or so. Dino and I also have an informal sprint point on the way back. From the top of Lake I can drop down to the Rose Bowl to swim and then ride home, making for a very time efficient ~3hr session. 

On Friday my plan was UAC to the Bowl, swim, then just JRA home. But 10' into the ride I could tell that the punchy, hard stuff wasn't going to happen so I basically just rode to the Bowl, swam, rode back. 

My point is to have fun and play on our bike while the plan lets you do that. But then the plan will tell you when that stuff just isn't going to work. 

morpheus

Kim-

after absorbing John and Rich's views, I think it comes down to work hard, accumulate TSS's, track TSS's, know when to back off and recover.

I just got the green light to get back to freestylin' a bit

kimmydct

Thanks John and Rich! It is nice that Strava does all that pesky tracking...

Lol@Chris. I hear ya. Sometimes the plan will limit u, sometimes it's the legs, like tonight. I'll try again thurs. I love the VO2+ stuff but not happenin tonight.

morpheus

Kim-



I'm very guilty of overthinking everything. Finally, as I get older, I'm really trying to simplify stuff. When I see how guys who are very successful like Rich and John look at all of this, I remind myself that the foundation is just working hard and recovering, working hard a little bit longer and recovering, repeat.



I shake my head at how simple they make it while I'm spinning my wheels in my head.



But, I do stand by my point on the final 8-12 weeks needing to be with race specificity as the focus.