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HR and Power Zones Questions

As I prepare to officially start IMChoo training on Monday, I was reviewing my zones and updating in Strava and had a few questions. I've bee w EN for years now so I should probably know this stuff..... 


- why are the zones so different from Strava (based on max of 190 which is prob high) vs EN? The EN HR zones seem really narrow compared with Strava too. My Z3 is 152-158. That's pretty tight!


- my running HR zones will never be correct. Pretty much as soon as I start running, even at Z1 pace, my HR is closer to high Z2 plus.  Is that something I just keep in the back of my mind, or do I adjust "officially" to reflect reality?   I pretty much never use HR for anything training or racing wise.


Here's a perfect example:  https://www.strava.com/activities/338936526/heartrate


My avg pace was between Z1-2 and my HR was Z4.  The miles were split a like first few Z1.5 then returning miles (slight downhill) were Z2 & 3.


 - Can bike power zones be edited in Strava?


Thanks!

Comments

  • RE: my running HR zones... Is it possible my body hates running as much as my mind? image It does give me some great Suffer Scores on Strava though!

  • Posted By Kim DuBord on 04 Jul 2015 07:50 AM

    As I prepare to officially start IMChoo training on Monday, I was reviewing my zones and updating in Strava and had a few questions. I've bee w EN for years now so I should probably know this stuff..... 




    - why are the zones so different from Strava (based on max of 190 which is prob high) vs EN? The EN HR zones seem really narrow compared with Strava too. My Z3 is 152-158. That's pretty tight! Because this is EN, not Strava?  I don't know anything about how Strava calculates their zones, how they work, etc, but the EN zones are from Friel's stuff, which has been used by thousands. They're good.



    - my running HR zones will never be correct. Pretty much as soon as I start running, even at Z1 pace, my HR is closer to high Z2 plus.  Is that something I just keep in the back of my mind, or do I adjust "officially" to reflect reality?   I pretty much never use HR for anything training or racing wise. The pacing zones are from Jack Daniels. HR are Friel zones. Not sure if they will every really match. When running intervals and other speed work, run by pace and observe HR. When doing easier stuff, run by HR and RPE, and observe pace. 



    Here's a perfect example:  https://www.strava.com/activities/338936526/heartrate



    My avg pace was between Z1-2 and my HR was Z4.  The miles were split a like first few Z1.5 then returning miles (slight downhill) were Z2 & 3.




     - Can bike power zones be edited in Strava? I don't know.



    Thanks!

    My general feedback / impression is that Strava is good as a mapping, accountability, fun tool, not so good as a training tool. I don't know why the intensity and "average weighted power" they assign to a ride is so different from what's on the dial of my Garmin or in TrainingPeaks. I don't know how they calc their Stress Scoreorwhatever and I think the suffer score is junk, just something to make you feel good about your session, I guess. That is, I've seen monster descrepancies between the suffer score assigned to a run and a bike. I don't pay any attention to it. 

  • Thanks Rich. I was mostly curious about the Strava stuff but really wondering more about why I can't run much under Z3, ever. I guess if that's MY normal, then I shouldn't be concerned. I just know that a lot of folks use HR during an IM run to help them determine whether or not to slow down, but since my HR is pretty much out of the zone from the get go, it won't help me much....

  • Posted By Kim DuBord on 07 Jul 2015 08:56 AM


    Thanks Rich. I was mostly curious about the Strava stuff but really wondering more about why I can't run much under Z3, ever. I guess if that's MY normal, then I shouldn't be concerned. I just know that a lot of folks use HR during an IM run to help them determine whether or not to slow down, but since my HR is pretty much out of the zone from the get go, it won't help me much....

    How and when did you set your run HR zones? Sounds to me like they may be outdated or inaccurate?

  • My HR zones were set off my last 5k test. Avg bpm 171 gives me these zones:

    Zone 1 (65%-78%)
    111-133

    Zone 2 (78%-89%)
    133-152

    Zone 3 (89%-93%)
    152-159

    Zone 4 (93%-99%)
    159-169

    Zone 5 (100%-102%)
    171-174

    Here's an example of a Z1-2 run with avg HR in the high Z3. https://connect.garmin.com/activity/737868988

  • When was this test? Do you feel the zones are no longer accurate?
  • Its not that I feel like they are no longer accurate, but that they never were or will be accurate.



    Here's todays long run, nice n steady in between Z1-2. HR avg 162 (Z4) That's just how it is...

    https://connect.garmin.com/activity/828531184

    Not
    sure if there is anything to do or if it just a "it is what it is" thing.... I guess my original thought was do I adjust my zones to reflect what they are in reality, or just keep this in the back of my mind. I guess in an IM, if someone else's HR hit Z4, and would be a red flag. For me, it is the norm....

  • Do you have the Garmin file from the 5K test which generated your HR zones? I'd be interested in looking at the minute-by-minute correlation between your HR and your pace during that test.

  • Per Rich, I don't look for alignment on both metrics. That's like using your Speedometer and MPG gauges simultaneously...too much to effectively manage! I run by pace, and note HR...understanding that my HR has changed in the last 2 weeks for humidity...I was upper 130s through June...now upper 140s at same / slightly slower space.

    So to clarify, I run by pace, note HR. Then on race day, I run by the HRs that I know I can hit and sustain as proven in training. So your long run above is really well run. Steady HR that builds over time. Can't ask for more than that. Now, if your HR was blowing up or you couldn't sustain your effort for the run, I'd be worried.
  • Here it is Al:
    https://connect.garmin.com/activity/807241194
    The big HR drop is walking up a hill for a bit....
  • Kim ... Simply looking at the *average* HR and the *average* pace during any run will not be useful to see if your zones in both are syncing up. In addition, you need to look at what is happening at specific points in time, and especially after you have had a chance to warm up and stabilize, which usually takes 15-25 minutes.

    Looking at the runs this way, I don't see a mismatch between pace zone and HR zone. Looking at the 10 K you ran on the rail trail recently, after the first 1-1.5 miles, you were running basically at your Training Pace (TP/Z4). Remember, the first half of that run was actually uphill @ a 1-2% grade, and the second half was downhill the same gradient. Your HR was pretty steady at around 161-2. So both your HR and your pace were just a tick below your Z4, right where it should be, and consistent with each other.

    On the "long run" you posted, your average pace was 10:56, which for you is between Marathon Pace (Z2) and Half Marathon Pace (Z3); your HR of 162 was in the high HMP Zone (3). What that says to me is that you are still in the phase of improving your running fitness. But it also says you need to learn how to better manage your efforts  - be willing to run slower - when asked to run @ LRP. Going that fast will not help improve your fitness, it will simply tire you out too much to get the benefit from a steady training program.  I think your heart rate is fairly reflecting the effort you were making, as shown by the pace at which you were running. You were almost racing a Half Marathon, which is NOT what you want to do on a 90 minute training run. What's happening when you do something at simply long run pace? I bet your HR will stabilize out at the mid 130s on such a run.

    Looking at your 5K test, again your pace and your HR were in the same zones in the last mile of the effort.

  • Al- Thank you for the analysis! That is really helpful, and yes, I'm def still in the process of improving run fitness. And yes, I guess I do need to better manage my efforts. I'm just so slow that I *thought* running faster would be helpful. DOH! I should know better and will slow down. The last time I ran a true long run pace was just because I was having a bad run and had no choice.
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