Speed

Rich Stanbaugh

I've been doing a lot of long rides lately. Nothing to do except think. I've been thinking about speed (on a bike).

I think we all accept that (in the world of power) that all TSS is not created equally. In the same vein, apart from equipment, Power, VI and weather, I don't think all rides are created equally.

I have ridden a 102 mile loop 2x this week. I finished each ride at 184 NP / 178 Pavg, including all the stoplights and the several towns I ride through (this route passes a bakery). My Garmin is set to autostop when I am stopped, so the effects of the lights are reduced. One ride took 5:10 / 19.7 mph and one took 5:02 / 20.2 mph. No relevant difference in the wind, traffic, same bike / setup etc.

The biggest difference that I can come up with was my mentality. On the second ride, I was focused on 20 mph. I show speed on my Garmin, and whenever I fell below 20 mph I worked to get back to 20 mph. Over hill tops, around corners, after traffic signals, I was focused on 20. The first ride I was only focused on power. It seems like thinking about conserving momentum / speed helps me go faster. I have noticed this before on rollers.

I do not want to take anything away from our focus on power, reducing VI, proper race nutrition, etc. These things are fundamental to setting up our run. 

Having said that, I do not believe that all rides are created equally. What are the things you do to ride faster at the same power levels? Not talking about equipment... talking about riding skills / thoughts / art???

 

tim cronk

Rich I think these are legitimate thoughts and warrants a good discussion.... While I never look at speed , I certainly think about it.... After all the goal of a race is to get from point A to point B as fast as possible , and the goal of most training is to accomplish certain watts/TSS for the session...While I do focus on staying aero while training the main difference between training and racing for me is really focussing on staying aero thru the race.... Unfortunately, I really dont have an answer (other than there are still plenty of variables on a 100 mile ride to account for 1/2 mile an hour speed differential even if you feel all was equal) for you, but some thoughts of my own along this line...

I tend to excel on flat courses and under perform on hilly courses...As a lightweight this is exactly opposite of what "should" be happening....After spending sometime on bestbikesplit.com where they are designed to get you the bestbikesplit (speed) over the course, although I'm not sure about the best run after, following their guidance , I believe I figured out my issue.... Being a lightweight on a hilly course I think I under power the climbs(I can easily spin most climbs at IM power) and over power the descents in my attempt to flatten the course , and on flat courses I can just pedal the IM watts steady... Here is my cheat sheet from BBS on how best to ride IMLP and it has quite a variable target of watts over different terrain... Having said all that BBS still comes much closer in estimating all of my flat courses than it does estimating my hilly courses....


Best Bike Split
CATEGORY WATTS
Flat/Roll
Headwind 169
Flat/Roll
Tailwind 153
Flat/Roll
Crosswind 162
Minor Hill
(1-2%) 178
Medium Hill
(2-4%) 192
Major Hill
(4-6%) 204
Extreme Hill
(>6%) 206
Minor
Descent 144

So yes I do believe there is some magic, skill , art , etc in riding different courses in different ways to maintain the best momentum through out... How and what that is ? Probably just experience and course experience.... Certainly see nothing wrong with your focussing on speed as long as your not spiking your watts to burnt matches extremes , its probably just focussing you on pedaling thru the hill to get back up to speed/power sooner...

ezellrh

Besides focusing on staying aero as Tom mentioned, I believe a lot of it comes down to bicycle handing from multiple perspectives. Handling corners correctly, feathering your brakes instead of fist gripping them, picking out the best pavement in front of you, knowing your course and knowing when to bump the watts slightly and when to accept them as is. Personally, when I'm out on the road, I will tuck in behind cars to catch a boost as they pass me and stay close to the traffic flow. Seems to pull me along sometimes (maybe just mental, but it makes me feel fast). I fall into the 'no speed on any screen' clan, but it is a valuable data point.

FWIW, I also think your perception of 'nothing was different' between the rides may be slightly skewed. Hard to believe two different rides had exactly the same variables around the bike the entire time (and in the engine as well). 8 minutes is not a lot of delta over 100 miles of road ride Personally, I find the consistency between those two rides impressive.

Rich Stanbaugh

You are both hitting points that I think about while riding.

Entering and cresting hills is an area that I work on and need to improve. Seems like I need to shift down faster into the hill and accelerate faster over the top. Especially on longer climbs, I've noticed a tendency to spin all the way to the top, even though the grade has gone from 8-6-4-2%. As the grade decreases, shifting sooner and accelerating sooner for the descent means more taking advantage of gravity for a little longer on each hill.

Pavement is a really good point. I find myself looking for the "shiny" parts of the tarmac as I ride. The roads around me are all sorts, with lots of chip seal and black top. As the cars smooth the road, there is always a faster strip - sometimes the white line - to ride.

These are small points, but I think they add up over 112 miles. And they come at a good value relative to other IM investments!

I think about the different cadence-gear-sped solutions. A lot of times, especially on flats, we have a choice between two gears without affecting our NP. Sometimes it seems that pushing the bigger gear is faster. Sometimes not. Sometimes I will do it just for a change, to use slightly different leg muscles. I'm not sure which is faster?

Coach Patrick

Rich, the aero gains are greatest b/c they come at no HR cost. Working harder is harder and is great for training but not on race day.

Aside from knowledge of the course, I run a lower gear (close to 80 rpms) as I feel the tension lets me use both quads / hammies when riding vs just pushing with quads...but that's me, and done across many years of riding!

Coach Rich

Rich,

Across 100+ miles I can think of lots of things that add up to 8 minutes, including (1) differences in where you decide to spend the same watts on different terrain, (2) wind differences, and (3) actions at stop lights, and more.

Rich Stanbaugh

@CP - I am all over the aero gains. I'm looking for a place to do some Chung Analysis... have several things I would like to test. Changes in CdA over 20 mph should be really meaningful over 112 miles.

@CR - totally agree there are lots of things that can make a difference. Having said that - my point is that I believe two rides with same NP & same VI can be ridden at different speeds. I am 100% bought into the concept of using a proven target NP and minimizing VI as a way to manage energy consumption and set up the run. Nothing in this topic is intended to dilute the message. One of the great messages from EN is the focus on ROI - I am looking to maximize the ROI with respect to speed for any given Target NP / minimal VI. This is where it seems that there is some "art" to riding.

You started a thread about things we can do with setup to get free speed (bike fit, latex tubes, wheel covers, etc.). I am trying to discuss the same concept - but based on riding skills rather than equipment/kit.

How can we ride so that we are maximize Avg speed while adhering strictly to Target NP / Minimum VI? This is the question.
- One way we do this when we run by running tangents on the course - shorter distance = shorter time.
- Tim mentioned hills above. I believe that getting above avg speed quickly as I crest helps push avg speed up
- Rough surfaces/bumps slow us. Riding smooth lines increase avg speed
- Cornering slows us. Getting speed above the avg quickly increases avg speed
- Sounds crazy - on windy days I move my head around until the wind noise is less as a way to reduce drag / increase avg speed
- Catching a draft on everyone we pass increases avg speed
- Increasing cadence before shift seems to increase acceleration (and cost less energy) and increases avg speed

What do you do in terms of riding technique / skills (not related to power) to ride faster?

MattAaronson

FWIW I do not show speed on my computer while racing or training. I get feedback while racing every 5 miles when the autolap notification tells me how long it took me to ride 5 miles.