What heat adaptations to expect?
Smart Peeps,
I've begun to notice that I sweat...a lot. I like to train in the cool of the morning, just works for my schedule and I like to minimize heat stress so I can maximize training stress. But the length of my rides and where I ride does have me climbing in the mountains in heat of mid day, etc. I don't do poorly in the heat, just prefer to avoid it if I can until about 3wks out from a race, then I'll seek it out.
But I've noticed that I even sweat a ton on these cool mornings. Like 68f, overcast, great temps for a 1:50 long run and I'm soaking. wet. Down to squishy socks wet. Dino was a witness and can attest to how much more sweaty I am than him. I lost about 6lb, despite drinking (does some quick math...) probably about 36oz from a bottle, couple water fountains, etc.
Same on rides but easier to keep up with it with bottles, etc.
So is sweating less something that comes with heat adaptation or is this just the way it is and I need to learn to account for it?
Comments
Hey Coach,
I'm certainly not one of those smart peeps to whom you refer, but I too sweat a lot more, earlier, and at lower temps as I progress through an IM build. A smart doc (and a guy who's been to Kona like 17 times) told me that if I notice it during an IM build, then it's almost certainly just my body's natural adaptation to increased fitness. With increased fitness, you can (and do) turn up the internal furnace higher, more frequently and for longer periods, and your body naturally reacts by turning on the fire hose earlier and with more force. When you're out of shape and do something stupid like a 15-miler in the heat, that's when your body freaks out and sends you into heat stroke, etc. So, in your current shape, you should sweat earlier, more and at lower temps. He said the one added benefit is that your body also learns to maintain more electrolytes, changing the composition of the sweat to more water. Still have to drink a ton, and still need those electrolytes, but the fitter you are, the less chance of hyponatremia and the more naturally prepared your body will be to cool you down on race day.
All of ^^ may be bunk, but I accepted it hook, line and sinker because it came from a smart dood who goes 9:15 and it made me feel good about my fitness.
Ok, that makes intuitive sense and I'm not really seeing any ill effects other than WTF and all that.
Heat adaptation actually increases sweat rate. And contrary to popular belief, it is possible to get heat adapted by training in (*relatively) cool weather.
Here's a link and a relevant quote from it:
http://www.sportsci.org/encyc/heata...ccl.html#1
"Most experts agree that intense physical training in a cool environment improves physiologic responses and speeds the process of heat acclimatization. During training in cool conditions, optimal physiologic adaptations may be achieved if strenuous interval training or continuous exercise, at an intensity above 50% of VO2max, is performed for 8-12 weeks. Maintenance of an elevated core body temperature appears to be the most important physiologic stimulus."
Your sweat rate is unique to you, and you have increased it with all that work you've been doing the past few months. Get to know it and learn how to replace what you lose as you get closer to IM WI. A key adaptation is increased plasma volume, which must be constantly fed.
Al, thanks for sharing. Glad I wasn't asked to participate in this study referenced in the article:
They exposed nine young men (21 y) and nine middle-aged men (46 y) to a 10-day heat acclimatization protocol (100 min treadmill walking per day, 49°C air temperature). The results of testing on Day 1 indicated that middle-aged men were able to exercise longer, had lower heart rates and rectal temperatures, and exhibited greater whole-body sweat rates than young men. The differences persisted for the first few days of heat acclimatization, but were absent by day 10 of heat acclimatization. Both groups were closely matched for body mass, surface area, percent body fat, and maximal aerobic power (51 versus 53 ml.kg-1.min-1, respectively). The factor that distinguished these two groups was their level of regular weekly physical training: middle-aged men ran an average of 39 km per week, whereas young men averaged only 8 km per week.
That's 120f!! Really hoping that's a typo
I am a physician, and love physiology (but have not studied exercise physiology as closely as Al T.) and came "off the couch" and began road cycling about 7 years ago....triathlon about 3 years ago. I definitely sweat more now than I did a few years ago. I too finish any run longer than 1:30 totally soaked....I mean dripping from shorts, shirt completely saturated and longer than when I started (stretched due to waterlogging!), wet socks and shoes. I've even had to stop after 10 miles and change shoes/socks because fear of blisters or impending blisters and squishing shoes. Bear in mind, I live in San Antonio and usually run after dark....often low 80's at that time of night/day, humidity >70% often.
Several years ago, I would finish long rides (wasn't running then) covered in sweat which quickly dried upon coming inside only to leave a gnarly layer of salt all over my bare skin. Now, once I air-dry, I'm not nearly as "salty". So, I think what MR quoted makes sense in that salt content seems to be less than when I was in less-good shape compared with now. Adaptation/metabolic changes due to improved fitness?
I also agree with what MR quoted re the volume of sweat. When I wasn't in as good of shape as now, I couldn't possibly run continuously for one hour, and therefore couldn't get as wet as I can now. I also definitely can tolerate a higher HR/effort for longer periods of time, and noticeably sweat more the harder I'm working. I used to be amazed to see the sweat just dripping constantly off of NBA players waiting for foul shots to be taken.....but....I would look just like that now that I'm in shape enough to work hard as long as they do (alas....if only I could shoot, jump, dribble with my left hand, or were one foot taller!).
I've heard all my life that "the more you sweat, the better your conditioning/"in shape" you are/is". I think what that really means is that you merely can exercise longer/harder and therefore will sweat more (cumulative and higher rate of sweating).
As I train locally for IMC, I have had to do long rides/runs in some pretty sultry conditions. I have YET this season to have any urge to void in any 5 or 6 hour ride or 6hr/1hr RR....despite drinking 48oz/hr of electrolyte fluids. Some of this is probably due to not pre-hydrating like we do for an IM race though. But still, I can lose 6#, not have any urge to void....despite drinking that volume (8.5Liters!). Not sure what else I can do though....my gut can't handle much more....burping frequently, etc. already. I'm hoping its' the prehydration factor....I voided 3-4x in IMTX last year and it was not a cool day. If not, I'm screwed.
It is interesting that the study Al linked revealed a higher sweat rate in the "older" men.....but the baseline training volume was very different, which is probably responsible for most of the higher sweat rate. Wish they had compared two similarly trained groups of young and "older" men.
The other factor to consider is the humidity in which rides/runs occur. As mentioned in the article, sweat rate is influenced (at least that's what they said) by humidity (higher humidity = higher sweat rate). BUT, you also have to consider the mechanism by which sweat "cools" us....evaporative conduction. The more humid it is, the less "evaporative effect"....and therefore the "sweatier" we feel and the wetter our clothes become. A "dry heat" like AZ, does not feel as hot as a "wet heat" (think Houston/New Orleans/Gulf Coast/South Florida) primarily because the sweat evaporates faster/more effectively in the drier conditions (e.g....room temp rubbing alcohol feels cooler on the skin than water because it evaporates faster). This also makes me question how one could accurately measure sweat rate in humid vs. dry conditions.....would have to be pre/post workout body weight I think...not any direct measurement of sweat being produced, as evaporation will be inevitable and unmeasurable.
Coach, I would guess that you have relatively low humidity in SoCal usually right? On your recent particularly "wet" workouts.....has it been more humid than usual?
Any time it recognizes that there is work getting done, it starts cooling earlier and aggressively.
You guys are talking about 1.5 hr runs and getting drenched. Pfffttt. I can go for 30min, 45min, ez effort or hard effort, outdoors, or inside on the gym's treadmill and I look like I just survived Death Valley's Marathon. Totally drenched. You don't want to be on a treadmill next to me or the elliptical in front of me, nor the locker beside me.
Second, is reaffirming your commitment to drinking a shit ton on the bike. If you know you are going to sweat like that ^above^ then if you start the marathon down a few lbs of fluid, you'll be SOL by mile 6, or mile 8. The goal is to start the run all topped off, and then you are playing the attrition game of how much can I drink and run on the run (usually 4oz per mile for me, a bit more if extreme temps or at alternate aid stations).
Hey Jeff,
Sounds like you and I are twins, high five!
My weather gauge says it's 66.5f and 30% humidity and slightly overcast. by the time I run with Riley in about 45' it will be about 67-68f. Perfect. 7-8mi run, 56-63', and I know I'll be totally soaking wet when I finish. In fact, I've enjoyed running shirtless recently (feels awesome on a morning like this) but I've learned that for runs beyond time x', I'm going to have squishier shoes because I don't have a shirt to catch the sweat so it all goes down my legs into my socks.
TMI?
My point is that I seem to sweat a ton regardless of weather conditions. The good news is that one my adaptations is that I can shotgun a 32oz bottle of cold water before I step out the door and be fine. I can drink a LOT of fluid in one sitting.
Anyway, today I'll post some pre-post run numbers just for fun.
7mi, 7:45 pace, 54', Z2 out, Z3 back, 70f, light breeze, exactly 4lb weight loss
And how much did you drink?
Zero. That was the point, I wanted to quantify this. Firehose starts at about 18-20' in.
Nope. And I'm not going to do one on a trainer. I have a ~90' ride this afternoon/evening, will do some math on that one.
You have to expect that Wisc will be hotter and probably more humid (not sure about the humidity, haven't looked these assumptions up)
Once you get a feel for how much you're losing, you're still going to be in deficit even if you pound the fluids. There's only so much you can put into the gut AND utilize.
Like P said, gotta stay ahead of this early on the long bike and run days. Even if you nail this, I wonder if there is something else that would help the body with it's cooling system....
To switch it up a bit, have you ever tried any/all of the cooling tricks like Torbjorn Sindballe (?) used to try in Kona. Even Ben Hoffman's sultan rag that he used last year. De Soto's cool wings. Anything that will hold ice on arteries (wrists, armpits, groin, abdomen).
Like you mentioned, when I head out this time of year for a run, I tend to go shirtless b/c I get tired of a soaking sheet bouncing around for 1+ hrs. (I swear that's the only reason...I swear). It's just easier and more convenient especially when your temps are pretty user friendly right now. It might be a P.I.T.A, inconvenient and 'dorky' to practice these cooling techniques but I wonder if it would make a difference down the line. I know Wisc is not scary hot like Kona or CdA this year, but this thread is more about your body running hot and proactively cooling than it is about 'reacting' to the weather in Madison.
Rich - Reviewing the highlighted article above, perhaps you should start checking your rectal temperature and report back....
Yes. x2 on the rectal temp checks for Coach!
And while I like running shirtless as well, for anything longer than 1hour my shoes will be much wetter, since the shorts only hold so much...I wear a shirt just to hold some fluids and try to keep the shoes dry.
Friday late afternoon I went out for a 1hr ride at about 83f to test out a change in my bike fit before a 112 ride on Saturday. I didn't drink anything, on purpose, and lost about 3lb = 48oz = 2 bottles per hour.
I know that, historically, I can keep up with that on a supported course. Pretty tough, however, on a training/RR-style ride but doable with cages, jersey pockets, and knowing where fluids are.
However, and I'm bringing this up here because I've seen similar comments in other threads and this is turning into a good place to park these discussions:
I simply can not stomach (yet?) the volume of Gatorade I need to take in to get in ~300-350cal/hr and stay hydrated. I was at my limit on Saturday with 5 bottles, definitely felt sick to my stomach. Curiously, I feel like I could do 2 x gels per hour + water and be fine. I can have couple bottles of G-ade, several bottles of water, a Snickers, a Coke...I've even had half a milkshake in the middle of a 130mi ride that left me pretty dehydrated...and stomach has been fine.
But bottle after bottle after bottle of Gatorade Endurance...it ain't workin' so far, with all signs pointing to my stomach not being jiggy after about 2hrs, and it sounds like others may be in the same boat. However, I do NOT want to mess with Special Snowflake solutions on the bike course. So I'm looking to do the math on:
As an aside, how many scoops of GE are people putting into a standard bike bottle? I'm doing 3 scoops...
Running for President of the Gatorade Endurance is Making Me Sick Society...
WTF? Seriously?
Goes to the kitchen to check the label and boost a measuring tablespoon...
I rode with Juan in the mountains for about 3hrs on Sunday. Seems his watch would beep every 15' and dig into his stuffed jersey pockets, like a squirrel, and pull out something else to eat. I think I had about half a bottle of GE, water, and a 3rd of a Cliffbar
I ran into an issue at Raleigh 70.3 that may be related to this. I am 99% certain that the GE that was available on the run course was mixed wrong... it was way too sweet. The bike course is not too much of an issue because the GE was in bottles. The "mix" on the run course was created by volunteers that may/may not have measured properly and may/may not have had accurate measuring devices.
On a hot course - the mixed concentration of calories / water needs to be less in order for your body to absorb the water. Otherwise, water moves into your gut for the digestion and just sits there bloating you and acceleration dehydration effects in muscles. I had this issue at Cabo last year - dehydrated while drinking mixed sports drinks that seemed pretty sweet. By using lower concentrations this summer, I have had really good luck staying hydrated. It poses some logistical issues that I am trying to work out.
I am trying to manage this on the bike by mixing my own and having a concentrated feeder bottle that I mix with water as I ride. I am adding in things I chew to make up for any calorie short falls. Still looking for ideas on how to manage it on the run.
- The nutrition information is "per 1.5 tablespoon."
- The directions call for 3x scoops per 24oz bottle, yielding 160cal and about 600mg sodium per 24oz bottle.
I'm going to cut my mix down to 2 scoops per bottle, getting the balance of my fluid from water and calories/sodium from other sources. I have a feeling I'm on the low end of sodium requirements, do to my experience of not cramping in some pretty dehydrated conditions.
IOW, the greater risk for me, and it sounds like others, is a rebelling stomach from reliance on GE
You've got my vote.
I like water. Really really do. And I know I need to get elctrolytes so I like NUUN, but I do get tired of that. The gatorade endurance has been going OK, but I can't drink a lot of it. If I add salty things to it, it's better. (The Right Stuff). How all this will translate to racing, I don't know. RR this week and big bricks so we shall see. I can't eat gels. I can take a bit of a gel now and then...but ack. Gagging on the bike is no good. I like Power Bars of all things...the original nasty gooey ones, because I like chewing something that's like real food. Not easy though. All the training here is 90 degrees and high humidity. IMFL could be 40 or 80 degrees. We shall see. My half coming up will likely be hot. Steelhead. I only have two bottle cages so it's time to head to my bike shop and talk to the guys about some additional hardware.
Ok...so a bottle of GE = 3 tablespoons per the nutritional information on the label. So:
Is my Math for Marines tracking here?
FWIW, I drink 2 bottles of GE an hour (3 scoops of the scoop), and on race day I start with IM Perform for first hour (3 bottles)...so across 5 hours I have 11 bottles of sports drink, no water, with a power-gel or 1/2 powerbar every 30'. This gives me just over 500 cals per hour but more importantly tops me off.
How do I drink on race day? I pound the GE until I burp it back up...like 1/3 of a bottle flying out of my mouth onto my bike...then my brain says, hey, I'm full! And I can dial it back to normal hydration levels.
Everyone has their own tolerances, but please please please train your gut people...don't give up after a few tries where every weekend is a different amount, different bars, different paces...your racing self deserves better.