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How to Incorporate Hills Into IM Run Training

So apparently IMChoo isn't flat. I'd like to incorporate some more hills into my run training (as it doesnt occur "naturally" where i do most of my running) but not sure how (ie frequency, duration, pace, etc). Where I usually do my long runs is a fairly flat paved rail trail, and other runs on a dirt rail trail, also flat. But, my neighborhood is hilly so I could def use those hills, but not on the long run since I do that midpoint between work and home due to time, convenience, etc.

Do I do my Z4 stuff on hills? Then my target pace goes out the window. Or do my Z4 stuff, then some hills at "whatever pace"? Or do my brick runs on hills, and again, pace will be off? One hill run per week? All?

Input appreciated! Thanks!

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  • After my IMSTG melt down, my new plan is to add as much hill work as I will see on race day on each long run, adjusted for the length of my run. So, if I am to see 900 ft on race day, and I have a 13 mile long run, will aim to hit 450ft minimum. For me that means running up and down the same 3 hills, boring. But at least I will gain the muscle and mental gas needed to go 'up'.

    And yeah, the pace goals go out the window - and that is helpful as knowing how to project my race split.

    If long runs are out, again after getting it handed to me at STG, I would do at least 2 hill runs a week, assuming they are of the 30-45 min variety.

    You could say I am super hill sensitive nowimage

  • Posted By Kim DuBord on 14 Jul 2015 08:15 PM


    So apparently IMChoo isn't flat. I'd like to incorporate some more hills into my run training (as it doesnt occur "naturally" where i do most of my running) but not sure how (ie frequency, duration, pace, etc). Where I usually do my long runs is a fairly flat paved rail trail, and other runs on a dirt rail trail, also flat. But, my neighborhood is hilly so I could def use those hills, but not on the long run since I do that midpoint between work and home due to time, convenience, etc.



    Do I do my Z4 stuff on hills? Then my target pace goes out the window. Or do my Z4 stuff, then some hills at "whatever pace"? Or do my brick runs on hills, and again, pace will be off? One hill run per week? All?



    Input appreciated! Thanks!

    Running in hills will mean that your pace will be "off" but you still have HR and RPE, correct? So a Zone 4 hilly run is still a Z4 heart rate and RPE. And by using Strava you can create particularly hilly segment and track your performance on that segment over time. Lastly, you can use Strava's Graded Average Pace (GAP) on this segment and on the hilly run overall to sorta-convert that hilly run into a flat run. 

    See my Monday run here, look at the per mile paces and note miles 5, 6, and 7. That me hammering on a hilly route I've been doing for years. Note the GAP column. That's what I use to convert that segment to a flat run (no idea how accurate it is, but it's consistent from week to week) and I informally track improvements or changes in the GAP for that segment. 

    Regarding when / where to do hills in your training:

    • I just find I'm able to run very hard on a hilly route with a much lower RPE vs the same zone/pace on flat ground, especially intervals. For a flat Z4 interval, the clock ticks backwards after about 5'. But on ^this^ ~2.2mi tempo segment, I'm much more on autopilot and actually enjoy the work. So there's that, maybe consider doing an informal hilly run and watching the RPE difference vs a flat run. 
    • It's important to note when the hills are at IMChat. They hit you at, I believe, about miles 20-24, an evil part of the course. I think it would be valuable to structure a few of your long runs so that you're on hills in the last 30' of your run, and then project yourself out on the IMChat course and rehearse the conversations your head will be having with you on race day. 
  • Kim, Thanks for posting this question. I'm signed up for IMChat as well and there are no hills anywhere near me in south Louisiana except for highway overpasses or an occasional levee crossing (steep but short). Anyone have any idea if a treadmill set on an incline does a halfway decent hill simulation or if I should drive 90 minutes do run on some real hills a few times?

    Thanks for the great suggestions so far.
  • Thanks everyone!

    Rich- I didn't see an elevation profile for IMChoo on the race site. Any idea on what the hills are like so I can pick some reasonably similar terrain, or does that not matter as much as just running "up"?

  • Posted By Kim DuBord on 15 Jul 2015 09:42 AM


    Thanks everyone!



    Rich- I didn't see an elevation profile for IMChoo on the race site. Any idea on what the hills are like so I can pick some reasonably similar terrain, or does that not matter as much as just running "up"?

    15 sec search on RidwithGPS.com 

    http://ridewithgps.com/routes/8812469

    Note the hills on the other side of the river


  • Posted By Kim DuBord on 14 Jul 2015 08:15 PM


    ...Do I do my Z4 stuff on hills? Then my target pace goes out the window. Or do my Z4 stuff, then some hills at "whatever pace"? Or do my brick runs on hills, and again, pace will be off? One hill run per week? All?...

    Thoughts on incorporating hills into run training. First off, almost all of my run training is in hills. To leave my house, I gotta go UP about 150' in half a mile or so. Three roads out/up, @ varying grades of 4-12%. Then more of the same the rest of the way.

    "Do I do my Z4 stuff on hills?" IMO, NO! By "Z4 stuff", I;m referring to the weekly IM workout which is usually something like "2 x 1 mi (4') @ TP". This workout, I think, is about training your body and your neuromuscular connections about going fast. There are two elements to going fast: leg turnover and stride length. On hills, you can get the turnover, but not the stride length. These intervals, IM), are best done on perfectly level ground, ideally on a track, to get maximum benefit. Besides, doing them uphill also means your joint angles will be all wrong, throwing your balance and internal sensations off: ankles more dorsiflexed, center of gravity more forward, etc.

    Hills are good for building leg strength, and for preparing you to handle them mentally on race day. Since we're talking about IM race day specifically here, you don't need to learn how to run fast up hills, just learn how to keep running up hills. Being able to run up a half mile long hill instead of walking will save you, say, 2-3 minutes each time you do it. To say nothing of the psychological benefit you'll get by passing so many people who have been reduced to walking by the gradient. Just remember, on race day, you DO NOT, you SHOULD NOT increase your running effort simply because the ground starts to tilt up. FLATTEN THE RUN COURSE, just like you will flatten the bike course, by sustaining a constant effort level, up or down. Just as with biking, you don't need to go any harder, you just need to go at the same effort level. Which means you'll be going slower. don;t let the hill defeat you; slow down to whatever speed you need to go to maintain the same effort level you had starting up the hill.

    The longest hills on this course appear to be about 1/2 mile long, going up 120 vertical feet, which is an average of 5% gradient. Four of those in the course.  Entirely doable. There are also a couple of shorter rises coming out of a bridge which pops up to 9% briefly. That will make you really slow down. So go out and see if you can find a half mile hill of any steepness to incorporate into some of your runs. As to how often to "run hills", the more the merrier. It's OK to run up them at varying effort levels, Just like its OK to pop up rises on your bike at high effort levels, and at easy, JRA effort levels. Just don't use hills as a substitute for those 2 x 1 mi intervals.

     

  • Al nailed it.

    It's taken me a few years to apply what he's talking about to my runs around here.

    RPE/HR take over. It takes as long as it takes to get up this hill at this effort. These are thoughts that I hold onto when doing the local roads.

    I use the treadmill or track for specific pace work b/c we have some many 4-10% burps around here.

    But, I do all of the other filler runs on these same roads b/c I feel that they have made my legs and running stronger.

    I did have to learn the hard way that running these hills @zn3/4/5 effort most of the time would earn me some time in run jail (calf and AT stuff).
    Please reread this ^ as many times as you'd like image

  • Posted By Chris Hardbeck on 15 Jul 2015 11:02 AM.

    I did have to learn the hard way that running these hills @zn3/4/5 effort most of the time would earn me some time in run jail (calf and AT stuff).
    Please reread this ^ as many times as you'd like image
    +1,000. The few (3 in 17 years) running injuries I've sustained came from working too hard going downhill on the road (plantar fasciitis) and uphill on the treadmill (groin/lower abdomen). Hard running in hills IMO should only be done after a prolonged and sustained training cycle prepares you for it, and then only sparingly.
  • Al is on top of this, (as is rich, imagine that!)

    It's all in the HR, you won't keep the same sustained effort up and down... Learn how to let your body open up and take longer strides down the back side of the hill as well, just as you would on a bike.

    Hill running in training is less about the impact of training, so much as learning how to slog through it at a lower speed...

    Also important to remind yourself, particularly on lap two, that a slow slow run is faster than a fast walk..
  • Here's a hill for ya' http://www.strava.com/activities/347713994

    A little ambitious but I did it, slow. My Graded Avg pace was pretty consistent, and much slower (as close to my Z1 target of 12:04 I could get!) per Al's input. As I was running (or shuffling as the case may be, I was thinking, "What would Al say?" ) image

    I'll throw in another maybe smaller hill next time. This one wiped me out, so couldn't muster any Z2 miles, but it will make me stronger right?? (Or kill me!)
  • Yeah, that's a hill. I went to school @ Wesleyan, and freshman year, next door neighbor in the dorm grew up in Hamden, I vaguely remember the area.

    Keep it up, so to speak.

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