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Swimming: Am I too conservative in races?

I'm curious if I'm more or less on-track compared to others, because sometimes I think my swim times are slower than they should be.  I wonder if I am - in some races - just not swimming hard enough.   How fast do you all go, relative to your 1000 yd time trial times? I feel like when I do my 1000 yd time trial, I'm going all out (like doing a 5K run or whatever), so I don't go that hard in races. 

 

To put myself out there, here are data from me from last year.  All times per 100 yds, from 2009 races:

Best 1000 TT of the season: 1:33  (scy, open turns)

Best Oly (1500 m): 1:40  (27.5 min total)

Best Half (1900 m): 1:44 (37 min total)

IM (3800 m): 1:50 (78 min total)

Comments

  • William - I'm slower on the 1000TT and a lot faster in the races, so my vote is that you aren't pushing hard enough in races...notwithstanding the EN advice that the swim is the "price of admission" at the IM length. But I think you are giving up too much time. For perspective, I just swam my first TT the other day at 1:44 pace w flip turns and I did the Miami Int'l Tri (Mar2010) in 24:05. My best (and only) IM is 68. So maybe I'm the reverse of you and just can't get going without the race atmosphere. It could also be that the 1000TT is in the pool and the faster race performaces are all in wetsuit.
  • Yes, all my races are in wetsuit, and the TT in just garden variety jammers, so that makes the effective race pace 7-8 sec "worse" per 100, if I recall correctly.

    So you just deal with being at super high HR coming out of the water during T1 and a few min on the bike? I've always been scared that I'd ruin the rest of my day I guess.
  •  @ William - that's my 1000 yd TT: 1:33/100 yds. My race times: 26/33/70. My best IM is 66, but I've consciously slowed down in that distance the past two years, trying t save gas. 78 sounds like a pacing or a conditioning issue. I walk out of the water until I feel good, then start running. That keeps my HR and first minutes of bike feeling much easier.

  • In general, I have found that most folks are faster in a wetsuit / open water situation than in the pool. So if you did a 2k TT in the pool in 37, I'd expect a 35 or better on race day at a similar effort level (cuz we don't do splits while racing). Do you have any numbers from pool TTs to look at longer than 1k?

    P
  • Thanks Al and Patrick.

    Yes, and there's the draft, too... It took me a couple years to figure that out, and suddenly I picked a couple of minutes. (I may still be able to do a better job at that)

    No, I haven't done any 2k TT in the pool, in large part just to have a single, easy-to-repeat benchmark test to gauge things by. Every so many weeks I've been doing the 1000 TT for the last few years while actively swimming (as it appears is the case in my new EN plan as well).

    However, there's an implication in your response, Patrick, that I guess gets at the heart of the matter: "at a similar effort level". I think there's little doubt that I swim with higher perceived effort on the TT than during the race. I guess I've always thought that there was a big issue with getting out of the water having burned too many matches, so I played it kind of conservative (just like not running full tilt at the beginning of a race). I gather from your response and from Al's that my suspicion that maybe I was playing it too conservative is correct.

    In the "Swim Clinic 2008" book, you list the following for "Good swimming" cutoffs:

    1000 m/y = 17:30-18:00
    1500 m ~24:00 min
    Half IM 34-35 min
    Full IM ~ 70-75 min

    Even if we assume the long version (m) for the 1000, my 1000 time converted to meters is easily in the 17:00-17:30 range, and it looks as though you're holding pretty steady on the paces from the 1000 (presumably a TT) vs race times.

    I have a Warm-up/season-opening/"C" Olympic distance race on the calendar for May 23 and another swim TT in between now and then. Perhaps this is an opportunity to experiment with swimming closer to that TT pace??

    (BTW, this race has two down-then-up river valley crossings on the bike with 7-10 min climbs. Is proper EN-etiquette for an Oly race being taken as a hard training day/benchmark to attack the climbs intelligently or smack them as a training exercise?)
  • William - Until this year, I would come out of the water with my HR pegged on max. OLY times were generally 27-28 mins. It would take me about 2 miles on the bike to settle in and calm myself down. Then I went to my third swim camp in 3 years in Dec 2009...this one with Sarah McClarty. Made a major improvement. I cut three minutes off my OLY at MIT and came out feeling better than ever. Similar swim results in a Sprint race right early April. I'll have a better test this Saturday in the Hurricane Man rough water 2.4 mile swim. I'm using that as a true race rehearsal swim. It will be mostly real swimmers plus some triathletes in the gulf...no wet suit. I'm not the best at drafting, and I'm training through the race, so hope to do 75-80 mins. Two years ago I did 86 but it was truly rough water that year.
  • @Paul, stay away from the oil!
  • Scott, I am many hundreds of miles from the oil spill. Believe it or not, the oceonographers think that once the loop current catches it, the Atlantic coast of Florida is more likely to get damage than the West Coast beaches (apart from the panhandle). But maybe if I had some on me, I would be more 'slippery' in the water (to make light of a truly bad thing).
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