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Outdoor vs Indoor FTP

My 'A' race is 2 1/2 weeks away - IMMT. I'm trying to fine tune everything to get things in order. One major item that's been pestering me has been to key in on an accurate FTP that is most useful to me on race day. What I mean by this, is that I have tested many times indoors on my trainer over the last couple of years, but have always had a tough time completing an outdoor FTP test, mostly due to the terrain, road conditions, traffic, etc. However, based on my outdoor training rides, I've come to the conclusion that I seem to be one of "unlucky" few whose outdoor FTP is lower than my indoor number.

Today I was able to complete the best example of an outdoor FTP test that I've attempted, albeit my PM zeroed out with 3 minutes to go, but I kept up the same intensity to completion. My last indoor test yielded a 244 FTP (5 & 20' test). Today's outdoor test shows me at 230 FTP (2 x 20' test). I realize that my FTP has come down from the highs that I hit several months during the OS and GF training (249 FTP), but could my outdoor number really be 5-6% (14 watts) lower than my indoor number? And, if this is the case, do I ratchet down my zones for IM racing purposes based on that lower outdoor FTP?

I should add that HR for this test was in the ballpark of indoor tests, although it was much hotter/humid today.

I appreciate any guidance here - Thanks in advance!

Comments

  • In my experience, steady climbs will yield numbers that are slightly higher while rolling terrain will prob cause the Pnorm to be a bit lower, with efforts being the same, due to the lower watts during the time on the downs. You also said that it was hot & humid. That's legit. HR's the same, but on a hot & humid wko, results will be lower. Fact.

    If testing outdoors is a hassle, think about taking that indoor FTP outside and applying racing tactics to a couple of 20' intervals. Cap the flats and climbs at 1.0 or very slightly higher, press steady on the downs using RPE or HR, and see how you hold up over 1-1.5 hrs. Run after and see if there are any legs left. Watch these numbers over a couple of weeks and see where the sweet spot seems to fall.

    I'm like you. Indoors is the only way I can get 20' in a vacuum. Outdoors has to have some flexibility. Can still work really hard but it might not be as pretty as the Pain Cave 2x 20s.

  • Brad, I would be very careful changing anything this close to your A Race.
    Also, I note your testing protocols were different. Some peeps get different FTP estimates from 5(10)20 vs 20(2)20.
    So, I would be focusing on the following types of questions, rather than 'is my FTP different now'?
    How did your RRs go? What watts did you target? How was the run afterwards? etc
  • Brad - IMHO, its way too late in the game to be worried about a 20 minute FTP number that you got 2.5 weeks prior to game day. I actually thought Coach Rich took out the FTP test that used to be in the plans in week 17 or 18 specifically for this reason.

    FWIW, for your IM execution planning factors: I would really focus on the results of your RR's and recent long rides. I would dig into the data you've gathered from RR1 and your other long rides to dial in a target range for RR2. After RR2, take a hard look at the quantifiable (numbers) and subjective data (how you felt) to come up with a plan for your race. Those are much better indicators of where your fitness is and what you are likely capable of.

    Good luck image
  • x2 Roy.  Coaches did take that wk 17/18 FTP test out of the IM plans this year.  Not SURE why, but I think most folks didn't do it anyway.  By this point, you have done lots of long rides at 75-80%-->70% and one RR at 70% (or whatever your target is based on the course and your anticipated time on the bike on that course (Best Bike Split.com is an awesome resource if you haven't played with it).  I think the other reason they took it out is that by wk 17, with all the volume you're doing in all 3 disciplines, there is no way your 1hr power (FTP) will be as high as during a HIM plan or GF plan or BF plan.  But, it's close enough, and you've now added the "far" based on a "relatively recent" accurate FTP test.  

    Your question is, though, could my FTP really be 14W different indoors vs. outdoors?  Mine is usually a bit higher outdoors....but not 14W....not to say that's impossible though.  I bet it's cumulative fatigue and specificity though that's causing most of that....which the taper will partially correct and the specificity changes are the whole idea to begin with.    

    At this point in the process, I completely agree with Roy and would focus on your RR and long rides and how you felt towards the end of those and how you felt running off the bike in those RR.  

    If I were you, and I was still questioning which number to use....244 or 230, I would split the difference!  70% of 244 is 171.  70% of 230 is 161.  Why not target 165, push a little (per the EN bike execution gear strategy) more uphill when needed, but try to nail 165 NP.  I doubt that would be too much, and if it's a little low, you'll have a better run.  

    We were supposed to do that FTP test in wk 17/18 last year....I think only one or two folks in the IMTX group actually did it.  If I had attempted it, it would demonstrated a huge drop in FTP.  But I'm not interested in FTP in wk 17.  I'm interested in 6hour power...not one hour power. 

    I would trust your old FTP or split the difference if it were me.  

    Just my $0.02.    

  • Thanks for replies. After reading what you all have said, I agree - too late to drive myself nuts over this test. However, I do know that my FTP outside is definitely lower than what I've tested inside. I know this by the hard effort sessions that I done on the roads (including a couple of sprint distance races over the last couple of months), and by the long training efforts that I've booked too. I will pay attention this weekend to RR#2 and see how I run off the bike too and think I can probably guestimate where I should be with decent accuracy. If anything, I'd rather ride a bit conservatively for my race and give myself the best shot to have a good run, than to overcook the bike. Going forward....I simply need to figure out what my indoor testing translates to outdoor FTP. Thanks again!
  • outdoor numbers are typically 10 Watts higher than indoor #s, Let's start there.



    now you are going to ride at an IF of what? for the ride? .68? .7? are you trying to kill it on the bike and do a cronk-like .72 or higher?

    at .7 you are dealing with roughly a ten watt range based on the numbers you provided.. yes, that difference can smoke you, assuming you nailed a perfect all out FTP test.

    I was going through this exercise with a WSM in a private email in the week and a half prior to IMLP. 

    I had a couple of rides in at 2x15 a week apart on Wednesdays where I did 245 one week and 254 the next. I was trying to SWAG my FTP, and felt that my prior year 247 number was probably correct. On the 2nd ride(254) I wasn't dead after, didn't feel like puking, and had plenty to go.

    The WSM suggested to look at my power curve on Strava + check the box for FTP, doing this came up with a magical # - 247 - those guys at Strava are doing something right! 

    Also, their 5 hr power curve had me at 170.... 

    so, my plan for LP was to go with a target power of 168, allowing myself to ride low 180s on long hills. I have done 5 hr rides where I did shizz load of climbing at an NP of 186, I managed to barely run 6 miles in an RR after that. So, I know that was wayyy too much, but I also got to learn on two later rides where I targeted 168-172, that this was totally my comfort zone for 5+hour power..

    Look at your long rides, know how hard you were riding them, know how consistent you were on the hills, up & down. Look at strava!

    between all of this you should be able to come up with a number that gives you confidence. 



    lastly, if you are 5-10 watts low for the first lap, you can negative split the bike by 5-10 mins on lap 2 (assuming the wind doesn't pick up) and if all else fails, you have 26.2 miles to prove you rode the bike to easy... 

    and if all else really fails, Heidi is chasing you, and we both know you don't want her catching you, just sayin... 

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