How/Why to Training Peaks/WKO4/Strava

Douglas Sutherland

A quote from coach R circa 2011 "They (training peaks) are another thing that's wrong with the tri space: spending money on stuff that just doesn't matter. You don't get faster because you log your stuff, track your blood pressure or the # of miles on your shoes."

Does this still apply to TP in 2015?

I have been on TP now for 4 months. I found it useful for self-accountability basically, and to follow week TSS. I have been on Strava for a week, and that is a better option for this as others can give you a boost (or boot) on your performance. 

But I would like to move on from self accountability and begin to understand how I compare to myself in the past, possibly in more detail than the simple VDOT/FTP. I am not sure I can do that with TP. I look at the TP Dashboard, trying to glean some info, but really that just regurgitates my log in graphical format. WKO4 makes me feel like Milton. Even if I learn it, I sense there is too much info there.

Does Strava 'Premium' allow for log and analysis? Is there a best product in this space?

Or just stick to VDOT/FTP?

Thanks,

DS

Tom Glynn

The new WKO 4.0 does what you are looking for. (Mac only now - PC soon). You can select a graph like mean maximal power curve showing best power output over a range of times from 1 second to several hours. You then select a date range (say 2015) to see the curve over that time frame. You can then click on 2014 or whatever time frame you like. Best part is you can click on multiple date ranges and see the difference, so you can see if you are improving or not in less than 10 seconds. Works on all graphs, so you can analyze almost anything. I'm really liking the new product. Happy to give you more details on the product. There are a ton of videos on the YouTube channel now too.

 

Here is a good oneL:  https://www.youtube.com/embed/G1zqXXo7G6k?list=PLOhzd0zmrJzn3skGICU-jM_bzecPQuAjC

Full disclosure - I've been on Training Peaks for 10 plus years, paid for past 3 or 4.  Used WKO 3.0 for several but gave it up when I went Mac several years ago.

Coach Rich

My comment was probably made within the context of people not hesitating to spend $20/mo on a training log with tons of features, 80% they will never use, but then counting the nickels on a $49 crappy plan vs $109 EN membership vs $149 coaching with a local guy who knows nothing about IM coaching and racing.



IOW, triathletes will spend money on shiny objects -- namely gear and whizzbang training logs -- while generally undervaluing quality knowledge.



To answer your question:

- Strava is fun first, a training log second. I really, really don't like how their "weighted average power" is way off the Pnorm language that everyone else use, Intensity is way off, and Suffer Score is just dumb, as a metric. But I'm about to crush myself on my local climbing TT route and Strava is very valuable for that. 

- TP is a better training log but I've had difficulty pulling out the metrics I want to see, namely power from my longer rides. WKO4 seems to have more of these "it will automatically tell you stuff about your improving fitness" features but I haven't had time to dive into it yet.

Rich Stanbaugh

I completely agree with CoachR. Buying a power meter does not make one fast or a better cyclist. Learning how to use your power meter as a tool to measure your performance, guide your training levels and plan/manage your bike execution will make one faster and a better cyclist.

- For me, Strava is social and free. The tools on Strava do not provide any meaningful analytical benefit. Perhaps that is because there are better tools and I haven't tried. I do really like the social aspect of Strava. It helps to stay connected with the team and to stay motivated.

- TrainingPeaks is useful as a log and helpful for big-picture metrics. I believe that it is beneficial for me to have a log of activities because it is objective whereas my memory is not so objective. On a daily basis I use TP after a workout to see the workout stats and on a weekly basis I use it to easily track volume metrics. I have found the PM chart to be a very effective to help keep me consistently building (I love building the big blue mountain) and to help manage recovery timeframes. I'm not sure it is the best tool... but is "a tool" where I did not have one in the past.

- WKO4/GoldenCheetah are tools I use to dissect workouts. Prior to WKO4, I was limited to GoldenCheetah for the bike and Excel for everything else. After a couple weeks of using WKO4, I am convinced that it will be one of my primary tools for understanding my performance going forward.

- Garmin Connect is pretty much useless for me except as a repository for collecting and sharing my training data. I get zero analytic or metrics tracing benefit from it.

I'm not sure how helpful this is - I am (admittedly) a geek about the data. The numbers and the graphs help me understand what is happening and how I need to change better than I can understand from listening to someone describe it. We are all put together differently!
:-)

Douglas Sutherland

I consider my self a data geek, but I am new to Tri data. Within WKO4, what are the highest value metric to follow? I assume most are studying power output on bike, in some fashion, but am curious is is equally useful for run/swim?

Rich Stanbaugh

Doug - the biggest value that I see with WKO4 is the ability to imagine the data you want to see and then go create a chart with that data. WKO4 has the ability to create expressions and then display that data in a graph or table. That ability is pretty "fresh" right now and the documentation is thin, but I can see that this is where the software is going. Apart from the ability to look at my data the way that I want to see it, I am very interested in the new Power Duration model and the mFTP (modeled FTP) calculations. I do not have an opinion on the new model yet - it is going to take some time using it to understand its strengths/weaknesses.

Tom Glynn

I agree that the power of this program will develop as more charts and analysis gets released to their chart exchange. Right now it's better and faster than WKO 3.0. I'm really using it them same way I used the old version. Some things I wouldn't consider doing in 3.0 because of the time involvement are now quite simple in 4.0.

For example I'm using the program to set up a 12 week range before my best performances and then looking at all the metrics that got me there. As I approach my next IM I know what I did 12 weeks before my best event, I have thoughts on where I need to get better and can track performances against the past range. I can also measure my fitness from 90 days to 12 weeks out from my best performance to my past 90 days now to see if I'm more or less fit. It's pretty cool.

As to running and swimming data and charts - they have a lot but I haven't spent much time there. For running I have typically only tracked miles per week and pace on my fast day and long day. The new version has PMC stuff, IF, training zones, pace curves and lots more, all at your finger tips. For swimming I've only tracked weekly yardage but would like to do more. The software tracks pace, cadence, volume, SWOLF score and other things too.

Al Truscott

I purchased the Mac 4.0 the day it came out, but I was in LP, and then NYC, so didn't get to it unti 48 hours ago. I'm eager to learn how to use it, but the "user manual" is a tough slog, may not be very extensive, and I'm too impatient to sit thru videos ...I'm as much a verbal/written word as a visual person. So no comments yet on this version.

But to answer Doug's query, I find WKO helps me most in tracking TSS and its derived metrics (CTL, ATL, TSB), basically what Tom's talking about. Once I learn how to easily select custom date ranges and sport specific data, it may become my all in one diary/analytic tool.