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Peter's Bike and Nutrition thoughts IMMOO

I just did my first long ride for MOO. Here are the stats:



- FTP: 264

- Distance: 100 miles

- Time: 4:41

- NP: 194

- IF: .74

- VI: 1.02

- Calories per hour: 228 (Gatorade Endurance, 4x salt pills, and an emergency gel)

- Fluids: 27oz per hour

- Net calories: -2,135 (Yikes!)



I think I need more calories. Last year these were close to the calories I used in IMCDA and was fine, but I really felt behind on nutrition today. This year I am targeting 30 higher watts, not sure if this has anything to do with it. At about the 4 hour mark I just felt empty inside, I was craving food, and I got a little hazy. I stayed aero for the first 4 hours, but once I got to that point I just couldn't do it any longer. Oddly, my watts were the highest for the last hour. I am not sure if this is because I was sitting up, or because I just wanted the ride to be over and hammered back to the car.



I am going out tomorrow for another long ride and I plan to take in 500 more calories by adding in a gel per hour. Is this too much to try? Should I try adding 50?



What about my wattage target? I was shooting for 190. Back in May when I did the tour of California my NP for each day was typically around 190. My HR from today seems about right. I averaged 145 bpm which is exactly what I did at IMCDA last year. I expect that if I kept going the additional 12 miles it would have risen higher, but at the same time I think I underperformed on the bike last year.



Any other thoughts? I go out again in 15 hours and I want to get it right this time!



Comments

  • That sounds too lean to me, but you have less body mass than me. Either way, I don't think iron is forged on 27oz of humming bird food per hour alone. Perhaps you could consider something real. Perhaps a bar or waffle or something similar at the midway point? If you don't want 200 calories in one shot, perhaps try and eat it over the course of the third hour.. I will have bar at the mid way point generally eaten as three bites about 10 minutes apart.

    A 200 calorie bar in the middle of an almost 5 hour ride is only going to bump your calories per hour by about 40. So, rather than 228/ hour you are getting about 270, which is a sweet spot for me, but others will think is still low. See guys like Coach P doing >400/hour, but again, he has more mass than you.

    Net, net. I say chew something. If nothing else, it will probably provide a little mental relief and make you feel strong.  Bonus if you can handle a high protein bar.  The protein will give you a satisfied feeling.  If you can get high fiber, that will mellow you blood sugar and help with the high and low sugar spikes in Gatorade and gels.


  • Posted By Peter Noyes on 07 Aug 2015 04:47 PM


    I just did my first long ride for MOO. Here are the stats:



    - FTP: 264

    - Distance: 100 miles

    - Time: 4:41

    - NP: 194

    - IF: .74

    - VI: 1.02

    - Calories per hour: 228 (Gatorade Endurance, 4x salt pills, and an emergency gel)

    - Fluids: 27oz per hour

    - Net calories: -2,135 (Yikes!)



    I think I need more calories. Last year these were close to the calories I used in IMCDA and was fine, but I really felt behind on nutrition today. This year I am targeting 30 higher watts, not sure if this has anything to do with it. At about the 4 hour mark I just felt empty inside, I was craving food, and I got a little hazy. I stayed aero for the first 4 hours, but once I got to that point I just couldn't do it any longer. Oddly, my watts were the highest for the last hour. I am not sure if this is because I was sitting up, or because I just wanted the ride to be over and hammered back to the car.



    I am going out tomorrow for another long ride and I plan to take in 500 more calories by adding in a gel per hour. Is this too much to try? Should I try adding 50?



    What about my wattage target? I was shooting for 190. Back in May when I did the tour of California my NP for each day was typically around 190. My HR from today seems about right. I averaged 145 bpm which is exactly what I did at IMCDA last year. I expect that if I kept going the additional 12 miles it would have risen higher, but at the same time I think I underperformed on the bike last year.



    Any other thoughts? I go out again in 15 hours and I want to get it right this time!




    Good to see you riding outside again . Notes:

    • Try for 300/hr but weight those calories to earlier in the ride when you're HR is lowest, you're well hydrated. So like 300-350/hr in the first half of the ride then less the second half. 
    • At about mile 60 I stop the GE and shift to water, gels, shotblocks, etc, as I just can't continue to pound the GE for the whole ride. 
    • Don't worry about your calorie deficit. That doesn't really mean anything. Rather, what's more important is how many calories you can process at your IM effort.
    • Likewise, make sure you weigh yourself before and after your ride, so you know what your net fluid loss is. 27oz/hr seems really, really low to me so hard to tell if the issues you experienced later in the ride were the result of low calories or dehydration. 
    • 190w Pnorm is a data point, as is your 145bpm hear rate. Tomorrow, recommend you ride at 180w for the first ~30-45, then dial in 195-200w the rest of the ride. Set your Garmin to autolap every ~3-5mi (I use 3mi) and have a screen with current power, lap Pnorm, and HR. I then just stare at this screen keeping current watts and HR where I want to see them and then I want to end each 3mi interval with my Pnorm where I want to see it. 
  • I wrote a post on this and got good input. My target was likewise low and I've been told to increase it. I've experimented with some increases and so far so good. Tomorrow I'm going to increase the calories yet again, targeting ~300/hr and see how I do. I'm eating Clif Bars on the bike and appreciate the "real food". When on the IMWI course there were a few times where there was no good time to hold the bar so I had to sort of go "chipmunk style" for a while (e.g. on Messerschmidt Rd when I was halfway through a half-bar but cresting a hill....). My general plan is to cut off the "real food" after 3.5 hours on the bike and do the last ~2 hours with gels and water.
  • Thanks everyone. I think tomorrow will go better.

  • Posted By Peter Noyes on 07 Aug 2015 10:42 PM


    Thanks everyone. I think tomorrow will go better.

    That's the spirit, Peter.  I am proud of you!


  • Posted By Peter Noyes on 07 Aug 2015 10:42 PM


    Thanks everyone. I think tomorrow will go better.

    I'm hitting the road at 0630, home, Encanto, SGRT to the coast, blah blah to 50mi and flip it. More hammer vs RR ride. I'm counting down the number of rides I have left on the path 

  • @Rich I just saw this! Funny, I independently planned a similar ride. My nutrition was much better today. I had closer to 40oz per hour, and 300 calories per hour, plus a bit more early on. I had plenty of legs left at the end, I just need to get more aero time in. Yesterday I lasted 4 hours in aero, today I could only muster 3.5. Yesterday I was 1mph faster with similar watts.
  • Lucky for you IMWI will afford you plenty of position changes. Obviously make sure you can do that without spiking watts.....

  • Posted By Peter Noyes on 08 Aug 2015 04:14 PM


    @Rich I just saw this! Funny, I independently planned a similar ride. My nutrition was much better today. I had closer to 40oz per hour, and 300 calories per hour, plus a bit more early on. I had plenty of legs left at the end, I just need to get more aero time in. Yesterday I lasted 4 hours in aero, today I could only muster 3.5. Yesterday I was 1mph faster with similar watts.

    Cool. Good seeing you at the overlook (?) on the bike path. We should probably name that thing...

    After so many trips up and down the path this summer, how I feel for the last ~25mi is sooooo related to (1) chillin' for the first 30', (2) getting a head start on calories and hydration in the first 2hrs, and (3) continuing to hydrate in the last 90'. I didn't drink enough today between SB and Arrow, had to rally by refilling a bottle and popping gel at Arrow. Felt strong and skidded to a stop at Market Grill for a sammich and fries. 

    Oh, and having a 20oz Coke in Seal Beach before coming up the path is money. I'll likely put a frozen bottle of Coke in my BSN bag and pick that up. 

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