What Happened to My RR Ride?

kimmydct

I have done 3 100+ mile rides pre-IMChoo so far and each one has gotten worse. (ie how I feel and the power I'm able to maintain)  The first 2, I just rode, not trying to hit IM pacing or "smoothness", just trying to get in mileage and TSS.





Here are the details:  First one 7/11@ .70IF. https://connect.garmin.com/activity/833594889




2nd was pretty bad and very hilly.  Also, started out too hard, but again, just going for mileage and TSS:


https://connect.garmin.com/activity/853033056




Here's my RR on the IMChoo course....  I was targeting .68IF and ended up with .61IF.  First loop was .64IF and the 2nd was .57IF.  Sleep was pretty bad 2 nights prior to this ride, and had some "admin stress" prior to this camp (missing bike part which did get resolved) https://connect.garmin.com/activity/865601663




Day 2 of IMChoo camp was way better. (just one loop) and was also after a 2.4mile practice swim in the river. Able to hold the .68IF





https://connect.garmin.com/activity/866855926










Some thoughts:  on the 1st  IMChoo ride, I had to pee pretty early so I backed off the drinking a bit, but then the heat kicked in so that was a bad combo.  Also, I had an FTP bump after the 1st 100-miler so the percentages aren't apples to apples with the other IF.  I suspect my ability to hold watts based on FTP for a longer period of time is lacking a bit.  In MFL 2012, I had planned 65-68% and ended up with .58IF.  I'd like to think I'm stronger now, but still feel like there's a discrepancy between FTP and long ride pace.  This is pretty much the same with my run.  My HM pace is slower than my VO2 based on 5K would indicate.

So with all this random info, what are some thoughts?  I'll def revisit my nutrition.  I'm typically good with about 3/4 bottle/hr + some GU/Chomps but the heat probably indicated a bit more. Should I target lower IF for IMChoo?  Or will I be that much stronger by race day?

rlh2000

I'll let smarter people than me comment on the power, but DUDE- NUTRITION/HYDRATION!!! 3/4 bottle/hr?? In heat? Girl, you crazy! Yes, everyone is different, but I can say with total certainty that that is way too little. My non-hot race plan is 1.25 bottles/hr, in heat, 2+. Also, with travel, how well hydrated were you coming in to the RR? If you were even a bit dehydrated and then drank that little, recipe for disaster. And total calories seem low too. Is your drink gatorade? How much GU/chomps? What does that come out to for cals/hr? You burned close to 3000 cals based on your garmin file. You do not want to start the marathon in a huge deficit. I have been targeting 300 cals/hr- had to train up to that number, but is working well for me.

Also, besides all the numbers, how did you feel? Did you feel you were fading? Did your legs feel ok or killed? Don't let the numbers be the sole dictator of good/bad.

kimmydct

Rachel- good point about the pre-ride hydration or lack of. But, I did feel like I had to pee early on in the ride so I backed off abit early. My cals/hr are about 300. I start out with 4 bottles of Infint/Gatorade blend (about 275 cals) then switch to just to Gatorade Endurance once that is gone. I felt pretty good up until maybe mile 35 then and honestly have no idea how I managed to get myself to start that second loop. Near the end of the 1st loop, I stopped at a conv store to get some more Gatorade and a red bull and chilled out for a bit. I felt better but couldn't get the power up.

rlh2000

So with 3/4 bottle an hour- that would be about 120 cals if you are drinking Gatorade Endurance. With that little liquid and then 180 calories in gu/chomp form, I would think that balance is off. No way you weren't dehydrated like whoa!

novaavant

+1 on hydration and nutrition. Have you done the sweat test? Liquids seem really light to me.
That course is tough if you're not on top of nutrition because the rollers sap the energy out of you on loop one and you don't even know it until the second loop. I front-loaded extra liquids when I raced there last year and it was a cooler day and I still suffered dehydration on the run.
On your garmin I would also auto-lap every 3-5 miles. This allows you to stay in a smaller box while watching your power.

John Withrow

Your NP on the 4 rides you posted were: 126W, 127W, 113W, 126W

I didn't drop the 3rd file into TrainingPeaks or WKO+, but you obviously faded in the back half. You were also out there for a total of 9 hours which is a LONG time.

x3 on dehydration. Ideally you would have been fully hydrated and well rested coming into that ride but would have needed 2-3 bottles per hour to just keep up with the hydration (Calories are another topic all together). Your Garmin file shows a 95 degree max temperature with an average of 79.1 degrees. That heat just sucks the life out of you and it will be a lot better in 6 weeks for the race. You will also have an infinite supply of fluids every 10 miles or so to drink and/or douse yourself with should it be crazy hot during the race.

At this point, your IF is less important than your long ride performance. I think you already identified this. So my advice to you is to try to schedule at least 1-2 (but preferably 3-4) more LONG rides (think 6+ hours) before the race (should your personal calendar/life allow it). Treat all of them as RR rides and take note of your NP for the rides. Use this number to dial in your goal race effort and let the IF shake out wherever it may. There has been a lot of recent discussion in the forums (~3 different threads) around the concept of "5-hour power". A lot of the people are the really fast guys that are targeting low-5hr bike splits. But the concept remains the same regardless of your expected bike split. But, something like a"6 hour Power" is probably more appropriate if you're expecting to be out there a longer time.

You definitely have better bike fitness from all of the roadie stuff I have seen you do this year. You just need to layer a bit more of the "far" under your "fast". And nailing the "far" is only partially about the fitness in your legs. It's also a lot about "positional fitness", and nailing your Nutrition AND nailing your Hydration. ...and if it's 90+ degrees, all bets are off, just try to survive (but shorting yourself on fluids is a bad survival strategy in heat).

Clark Mitchell

One thing that I've learned in my limited IM experience is that if I have to pee then I need to pee and sooner vs. later. The worst thing that I can do is change (ie reduce) my fluid intake because I have to pee. If for some reason I can't ride and pee the I need to stop and pee. I know this and yet I still negotiate with myself regarding pee breaks. For me, having to pee, but not wanting to pee can result in a measurable decrease in output wattage.

Coach Rich

Dehydration. And this after I hammered into everyone's heads, including yours, how important it is to get a heads start on this and keep it up throughout the entire the ride. 

Remember my discussion of (1) using the JRA HR in the first 60' to get a head start on hydration, then (2) having a plan to switch to water + gels + sodium in the last ~90' so you stay on top of hydration, assuming that we all get sick of GE later in the bike? And my notes about how important it is to do your best to lose a little net water weight on the bike because you just can't get that back on the run. 

Harder, administratively, to stay on top of hydration on a training ride but with gas stations/water stops at the Dollar General at mile 12, gas station at mile 22, Pigeon Grill at mile 42, and Chimichanga at about mile 50-53, it can be done. 

kimmydct

So I guess there's a consensus here.... What's strange is that my "good" Century back in July looks similar in terms of temp, HR, etc. and my hydration/nutrition was pretty much the same. I'll make some changes for this Saturday's ride and go from there....