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The Race Weight Thread

I hear/read this term very frequently. I have studied it loosely, and understand there is an "ideal ratio" out there. I have also been told by many, including coach R, that dropping the lbs quickly is not recommended, rather to "chip away at it slowly" though I do not really understand why. This is how boxer/wrestlers do it, and they perform just fine.

I have no idea what my race weight is. That seems like an outcome variable to me...like finishing time, not a variable directly controllable. What I do know is I have hit a plateau. The first 25lbs came off fairly easily. As I sit at 183 (BMI 26.3, ~21% body fat), and have for about 7 weeks now despite the same restricted diet that dropped the 25, I am not seeing it budge. When I go lower on the calories, that works for about 3-4 days before I become an eating machine (as I did yesterday). I allowed this in part because I nearly passed out on a run the day before. This "problem" may go away in 2 weeks when I start my formal HIM build for Austin, ramping up the volume. We shall see.

I am targeting 175 for Austin (BMI of 25, W/Kg ~3.4) for no apparent reason.

1) How did you get past your weight loss plateau?

2) At what point do you listen to your appetite and indulge when trying to drop lbs while maintaining a training load?

3) How did you arrive at your definition of race weight?

Thanks,

DS

Comments

  • Timely, as I'm about to get on the scale myself.

    Gradual weight loss

    As I understand it, if you exercise, eat well, and create a sensible calorie deficit, most (ideally all) of the weight loss is in the form of fat loss. However, if weight loss is done too quickly, some of that is in the form of lost muscle which, depending on where you body decides to strip muscle, could be a good (upper body muscle loss is generally good for triathletes) or bad (leg muscle). What your body does/where it takes muscle/fat from is 100% individual. 

    Body Fat Percentage:

    Without having stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night and without knowing much of the science behind this, I doubt that your 21% BF is a hard stop for your body and/or fat loss. But...you're not me, you're a former football player, your body may just really dig being "big," etc. Regardless, the best, least risky way (as a function of minimizing power loss) is to have a months long goal and process that you just chip away at. You've made some pretty dramatic changes from IMSG through today. Not sure how/if that trajectory can continue through Austin '15 but I bet you could continue to make improvements if your goal were Austin '16. 

    Wrestlers and Boxers:

    Not a good comparison. They have to make weight for ONE very important day. The week after my IMWI camp I saw my weight go from 161lb on Monday (legs retaining water from the inflamation caused by a massive training weekend) to 149lb post long run on Thursday. Rather than running I bet I could have sat in Sauna and got down to 142lb, go to the weighin and ham it up Mayweather, then jump right back to mid 150's by pounding water. So I imagine (knowing nothing about the sport) that these guys within x-range of their fighting weight, then dramatically lose water to make weight, then instantly pop back up a few pounds for fight night. 

    ....and...153lb today

  • Your Race Weight:

    I'm been a lifelong endurance athlete, with a brief period of upper body strength focus in the Corps. Regardless I've never been a power athlete. My goal "as low as I can get by 9/13 without power and recovery suffering too much." IOW, there's a trade-off between w/kg and reduced body mass on the run but I'm not sure how to define that. I'm just using a healthy lb/wk and seeing what happens. 

    But my 153lb today means a lot to me with regards to past history: I've raced IM before at ~155lb, I would train in college at 149-152lb and race at 146-147lb, etc. However, no doubt my body has changed a ton since college but my point is that I have a lot of history in the 148-162lb range. 

    My advice is to 

    1. Set reasonable lb/wk weight loss goal. In my experience, .5lb-1lb is pretty harmless
    2. Start this process months and months out
    3. Listen to your body, but be disciplined, and see where it goes. 

    I may do a video on all of this, as I've (re)learned a lot in the last 6mo

  • Quick weight loss can really throw your body off- metabolism, hormones, etc. This is possibly why you have plateaued. Your body is like AHHH WHAT IS HAPPENING, MUST SAVE ALL THE FUEL SO WE DON"T WITHER AWAY!. Along the lines of Coach Rich, another reason to not do quick weight loss is that that means you are running a pretty big deficit and not fueling enough, so your workouts will suffer.

  • Posted By Rachel Hawe on 19 Aug 2015 08:44 AM


    Along the lines of Coach Rich, another reason to not do quick weight loss is that that means you are running a pretty big deficit and not fueling enough, so your workouts will suffer.

    ^This.^

    I've bonked on more than few lunch swim workouts (could be boredom also) because I didn't eat enough between AM and lunch sessions. I'm actually eating a bagel right now about 60' before 1:45 interval ride so I don't bonk during the ride. Huge volume week this week so I need to fuel. Any other week and I know I'd be good on a pre-ride apple + Gatorade during the ride. 

  • And, building on what Rachel and Rich just said...

    When I go into a big Calorie Deficit, whether it be from a week's worth of output>input or from just a huge wko weekend, I...will...binge.

    I have, yet, to stop me.

    So, it doesn't do me any good to do anything more that work my a$$ off and eat the right stuff.

    Lose It App. Tells me every time that I'm not eating enough. (This point has alot to do with your question #2)

    Question #3: work hard, eat right, the weight number will end up where you need it to be to maintain strength and endurance (relative to the training you put in)
  • Hey Doug...a resource I found very valuable is Matt Fitzgerald's Racing Weight books. Here is a thread I started a while back:



    http://members.endurancenation.us/Forums/tabid/57/aft/17454/Default.aspx

    Fitzgerald focuses on making sure you are fueling correctly. He says don't focus on counting calories. Otherwise, your body goes into starvation mode during endurance training. You don't lose weight and hamper performance gains. Also he says to focus on body fat not weight. Lean athletes are fast.


    The biggest surprise was his recommendation for carb consumption. I have upped my carbs to 400+ grams per day and my body fat has slowly gone down from around 14-15% to 12% since January. My weight has stayed the same around 168, so I've put on more muscle. And most importantly, I have definitely gotten faster.
  • Here are some things I do to fight the urge to binge:

    - Be smart about timing your food intake. I eat lots of carbs in the morning, and shift more toward protein later in the day. This controls hunger, it properly fuels workouts, and then it aids in recovery.
    - I plan my whole day in the morning in MyFitnessPal and then simply execute. If you track as you go, it is easy to leave yourself only a few hundred calories for dinner which really sucks and is a recipe for disaster.
    - If you go over, its not the end of the world, and its not an excuse to have the rest of the day be a "Cheat Day", going 300 calories over is way better than going 1000 over.
    - I leave myself a few hundred calories for a snack before I go to bed. Typically greek yogurt + fruit. Going to bed hungry really sucks.
    - I chew A LOT of gum.
    - I weigh myself everyday, but try to ignore the number and instead focus on the trend. Like Rich said, due to workouts, dehydration, water retention, BMs, weight can vary quite a bit. If you only weight yourself once a week it is easy to catch yourself on a bloated day, and think you are wayy off, when you might have weighed 5 pounds less the day before and not known it.

    Also, finding your BMR (Base Metabolic Rate) is tricky. It takes a bit of time and trial and error. A deficit of 3500 calories will result in a pound lost, so a 500 calorie daily deficit will result in a 1 pound/week loss. You can figure out the BMR based upon how much you are actually losing after some time of collecting data. You might find that your deficit is too big, which could result in the binging. For myself I can't even handle a 500 calorie deficit, for Wisconsin I am at a 200 calorie deficit.

    As for knowing what race weight is, I am going by my weight when I was a runner in high school.
    Race Weight is a good book, I follow a lot of its recommendations.
  • x3 on Fitzgerald's book Racing Weight. Liked that one a ton.
  • Very timely for me as well.  I come from a fat family (no one who doesn't exercise is normal weight- so that's 5 of us, all together, on both sides of my family that are normal) and my body likes to hold weight.  I feel good at 147 or lower (5'7" and carry the weight in my butt and thighs).  I have NEVER in my life lost weight accidentally, except three pounds last Oct during my IM taper.  I have no idea why, to this day.  On IM day, I GAINED 6#.  Yes- you read that right.  I suspected it was the carbs from fueling all day and it would fall off over the next week as I ate normally.  No- it never did.  So I settled at 153 or so for a few months.  Then I got lazy and blossomed up to 157.  I have been trying for the last month to seriously lose it.  I have lost about 2 pounds.  In a month.  Grrr.   Yeah, I know- that's 0.5# per week.  But it's a lot of work for that 0.5#.  My BMR is about 1250 cal/day- as measured by an actual treadmill VO2 max test which I thought would kill me.  Now I know why my family is fat and why I have such a hard time losing weight.  I have been tracking calories since about 2006 and have found that to lose weight, I put my exercise and food calories into my calculator (I like Sparkpeople).  My food can only be no more 1000 cal over my exercise.  So...if I run 4 miles (450 cal), I can eat 1450 cal that day.  That doesn't seem like enough, but I have been doing this long enough that I know what my formula is.  That's one reason I took up long course events- I need more exercise than 4 miles a day of running.

    I have recently tried to cut out sugar/junk, but will allow a few Fritos or an Oreo in the evening if I have calories to spare. I love wine and beer, but limit to a few times a week and only if I have calories to spare.  I have bumped my protein and fat because it keeps me fuller longer and even tried Coach's BAS- but I get tired of salads every day.  I snack on fruit and veggies.  I wish I knew a way to do this better, but I don't.  I have read Racing Weight 3 times and try to concentrate my carbs around workouts.  Right now I'm reading Why We Get Fat and What to Do About It.  I haven't gotten to the answer yet, but so far he says it's not the amount of food or exercise.  THEN WHAT IS IT?!?!?!  I guess I'll get the answer eventually.....

     

  • My BMR is pretty low for a guy, 1815. Very tough for me to eat that little on days without workouts. After I crashed I gained 6 pounds over 6 weeks, I just couldn't stick to that restrictive of a diet. When I am focused and I have a rest day where I really do eat just 1815, the following wrap from Trader Joes is my savior:

    http://www.myfitnesspal.com/food/calories/trader-joes-vietnamese-style-chicken-wrap-with-ginger-lime-dipping-sauce-111639187

    It only has 430 calories and pretty good overall macros. Might be a nice change from a salads.
  • Racing Weight is great, IMO.

    I too struggle with getting lean enough — my self assessment is that I have never been south of 10% BF.

    I am 5'7" and like to (hope to) race around 150. What I do know is that compared to racing at 160, at 150 I am superman! At 18 I was around 146.

    I am planning to see how lean I can get this coming season — I have my first race in 12 weeks and hope to race at an all time low of 140, I am 156 today.

    What has been working for me is to use a diet devised for me by a sports nutritionist based on a food diary of a month before the consult to show my tastes in food. He then devised the quantities and selection of meals (a range of options for each meal) that, if I stick to, will lead to a weight loss of around 1 to 1.5 lbs per week.

    As everyone has said, it is really important that you fuel before, during and after each wko!

    By tracking everything going in (and yes, you need to weigh everything), including fuelling and recovery food, and the fuel burned during exercise, together with weighing yourself at least once a week at the same time and day (I do it in the morning on Mondays after taking my dogs for a walk and after a toilet break and before any food and drink), you can work out after a few weeks the balance between eating and wkos that result in a gradual weight loss.

    I eat a lot of carbs every day as research clearly shows that endurance athletes need lots of carbs for fuel. If you substitute away from carbs to other energy sources, that hampers your recovery. Carbs each day for me could be 1/3 cup of rolled oats, a teaspoon of honey, 4 slices of toast, 1 whole pound of potatoes. And that is a rest day. If there are wkos, then gels, Infinit, and recovery drinks to balance the fuel burnt result in even more carbs.

    As Rich and other have said, your weight varies a lot during the week. In an IM build, my weight is a minimum am Thursday before my long run, and a maximum on am Monday, after Thursday, Saturday and Sunday very long wkos. Even with a 1 lb a week loss over the build, within that week my weight often varies by more than 7 lbs — thus the reason to weigh in on the same day every single week.

    Like Peter, gum really helps me. 

    You asked how to work out your 'racing weight' — Fitzgerald says it is the weight at which you perform the best (ie fastest). He envisages that you continue to lose weight and test your performance, until by going lower in weight from your best pace/speed, your pace/speed appears to be negatively impacted by the additional weight loss. I have never got there. For me, so far, lower weight has always resulted in more pace/speed.

    BTW, if I don't meet my race weight goal of 140, I will post a JW-type photo of me in my swimmers holding a sign stating that I am a fat triathlete etc! 

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