Tim Cronk's Kona -> Arizona Prescription: a Case Stud(l)y
Tim
and I have been talking offline about approaches to “Strong Second Ironmans of
the Season” falling within 4-5 weeks of a previous race. Explicit in this is the second Ironman as a
strong day. While Tim might not follow
what’s below, we thought we might bring the conversation forward to share,
discuss and get other perspectives.
(disclosure: this is the plan I am following between IM Canada and IM
Muskoka.)
**Also,
we talked about keeping Tim focussed on Kona for now, be what can I say … the
guy’s an overachiever and wants to wrap his mind around two events at
once.**
Tim
and team, have at it!
Week
1 of 5
This
is the week immediately after the first race.
No training for the first few days, then start running and swimming
Wednesday with distance as you feel. No
gps or hr allowed. If you’re really up
for it, Saturday is a 5h long ride “Classic EN” brick, but taking the day off
is fine, too. I used to get tweaked
about getting back on the bike as soon as possible after a race, but I’m taking
a different approach this time around.
Week
2 of 5
This
is “Bike week.” The main sessions this
week are 2 x 3.5 rides, done as (wu, accumulate 40’ FTP however you want,
remainder as ABP). Bury yourself on
these – particularly the ABP. Sunday is
all ABP. If you can get on a road bike
into group ride and just push, that would be ideal. Long run is 90’ done as a build from
EP->MP->HMP, with between 30-45 mins at HMP. Other sessions as written in plans.
M |
02-Aug-15 |
1 |
LT work |
||||
T |
03-Aug-15 |
3.5 |
1 |
ftp |
|||
W |
04-Aug-15 |
1 |
easy |
||||
T |
05-Aug-15 |
0.5 |
1.5 |
easy |
|||
F |
06-Aug-15 |
1 |
0.5 |
tt swim |
|||
S |
07-Aug-15 |
3.5 |
0.5 |
hilly. |
|||
S |
08-Aug-15 |
2.5 |
1.5 |
18.5 |
hilly, |
||
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Week 3 This is Thursday and Sunday are Long run as 90’ |
|||||||
M |
09-Aug-15 |
0.5 |
|
1.5 |
|
ftp |
|
t |
10-Aug-15 |
< | |||||
Comments
My first thought is that Week 2 of your plan would bury me (and I recover pretty quickly). I just couldn't accumulate that much FTP work that early after a hard race. I'd need to push the whole thing forward 3-7 days. But I'd also push everything forward and only really do a "normal" taper for 1.5 weeks, front loading some extra work in week 4 of 5. i.e., And use that weekend 2 weeks prior to the race to really crush myself (in a good way).
I didn't see any real mention of swimming. I think the biggest mistake I made last yr between IMMT and Kona and between Kona and COZ is that I got REALLY lazy with my swimming (like barely swimming 1x per week lazy). I think you could/should literally find a way to swim HARD for the entire 5 weeks.
The swimming is just about frequency. Given that the athlete's been putting in the long yards since December (?), I think the only thing that can happen in the intervening time is 'maintenance.' I can't see any more speed coming in that short a period, and in that stressed a time. Maybe maximize wetsuit swimming time? Anyhow ... my own finding this time around was post-race #1, the swim workouts felt terrible, and there was nothing there. I had guessed I was down by about 10s/100m. I quit a good number of them early. But I tested with a 1000m tt in week 2, and it was exactly the same - to the second - as my mid-season, tapered-and-shaved 1000m tt in the first buildup. Biggest surprise of this round for me.
Every body, and every IM-IM cycle, is going to be different. My recent experience coming off IM LP trying to ramp up for Kona is in line with Withrow's sense. I did too much too soon the second week, both biking and running, and paid for it with a high hamstring/mid-glute pain which necessitated 4 days off of running, though I was able to keep up a fairly rigorous (for me) biking program. At other times, I've been able to go almost full bore by Friday after an IM. After all these years, and a number of back-to-backs of varying lengths, all I can conclude is:
I agree with JW. Going that hard in Week 2 would destroy me, meaning big time injury risk. But perhaps that is just being an old fart and needing more time to recover after a race. Last year 14 days after IMMT I nearly had melt down on a 5 mile run, with my HR a good 15 beats higher per min than normal for Z1 pace. Had to stop and sit under a shade tree..
So my $.02 is, regardless of age, make sure you are recovered from the first race as the #1 priority. Some may need more time than others. Use frequency of workouts in weeks 3-4 maintaining fitness. I don't really think a well-trained athlete will loose much fitness in that time but they sure can get injuried or fatigued if they push too hard between races. If that occurs not much good will happen race day.
Also last year I did 3 IMs (MT, Kona, AZ) in 12 weeks and I didn't do much between KO and AZ. It was completely new terriory for me in terms of fatique and durability. My only priority was to recover, not get injured and not gain weight.
thanks for sharing.
I have found for me, the heart rate lability is high until a full three weeks after an Ironman. My concern is that if one is doing significant intensity before then you run the risk of cardiovascular system damage. and this can accumulate over the years. and my sense is, when I have pushed intensity within this three weeks, that I am indeed doing unhealthy things to my body.
agree it is different for everyone. balance of not losing fitness yet not hurting onself. after flogging onself for years can one get back into it sooner or does one need to be even more careful?
yes age is a factor.
I have a sense that I need more time to recover then others the same age. but then again I have not reached the volumes that some of you do regularly. I plan to get closer to my volume limits as I move to 50 yo.
1-3 weeks - There is not much you can do here except recover and race again... There is no room to "add" fitness...I've raced many OLY's two to three weeks after an IM and 2 IM's within two to three weeks of another IM (the OLY's all went well the IM's one good and one bad). I think 3 weeks is the sweet spot where you have not lost too much fitness and you are also just starting to enjoy the fitness bump from racing the IM while peaking the recovery....
4-6 weeks- This is the gray area in discussion...If you factor in recovery and taper , Not really enough time to add to fitness...But there is enough time to lose fitness.... It appears to me the best that could be done here is to recover , get back up to speed/distance , taper , race again... I think 5 weeks is the sweet spot for this to occur...
7-12 weeks- Enough time to actually add to the fitness after recovery.... 10-12 weeks would be the sweet spot... Anytime after 12 weeks it can almost be treated as a normal IM cycle.....
What Dave did NOT mention but I know he has it covered is Nutrition and the Mental Game... Importance of continuing to be disciplined with nutrition to stay/remain within range of race weight while recovering and fueling... The Mental Game is really tough for the shorter time frames between IM's... Its really hard to get ready to put it all out there again in such a short period of time...
Since we are all individuals and this is not a one size fits all problem or discussion , some other thoughts based on theory and experience... Most people will report after an IM that endurance comes back first and then power... I feel exactly the opposite , after an IM it seems my endurance sucks but I can still produce power... Which is weird since my strength is endurance... Having just finished IMLP I experienced it yet again being able to hit 40' of FTP work before being able to ride 3-4hrs at IM pace... So it important to think of the individual differences of age, size , gender , strength, and what works for you in this discussion....
Thoughts on Dave's Plan- Generalizing based on my theory of recovery , back up to speed, taper , race thoughts in the 4-6 weeks above, I would prefer a more balanced approach of swim/bike/run....
Week1- totally agree , all Zone 1 , 5-6 hrs tops , NO long ride over 2hrs or long run over 1hr
Week2- agree with others - too much work for me -
Week3- definitely in line with what I'm thinking (although more balanced)
Week4- too light could handle more work here
Week5- traditional taper good
My Plans for the 5 weeks between KONA and IMAZ...
Dave wanted to wait for this discussion until after KONA so as not to distract me... But I wanted to have it while still experiencing the first 5 weeks after IMLP while fresh in my mind and body... My thoughts and plans below are based on how I have been feeling during these 5 weeks after IMLP...
Week1- 5-6hrs all Z1 , 2hr ride , 1hr run
Week2- 12-13 hrs , 30' FTP , 8' V02 , 2 x 1 mile run interval , 3-3.5 hr bike , 1.5hr run
Week3- 15-16 hrs , 40' FTP , 12' V02, 3 x 1 mile run interval , 4.5-5 hr bike , 2hr run
Week4- 12-13hrs , 30' FTP , 8' V02 , 2 x 1 mile run interval , 2.5hr bike , 70min run
Week5-5-6hrs traditional taper
Other Notes: Lots of swimming through all 5 weeks....FTP intervals ok to be light at .90-.95... V02 intervals in the 105-110% range... Run intervals based on RPE not pace... Long rides and runs at Race Pace with RPP at the end...
I just want to thank all of you for giving the best kind of real life experience. I started tri when I was 55, broke my leg and came back stronger than ever. You give me hope and inspiration. IMAZ is my first full, but I'm so looking forward to the experience, training hard, aging up, and following in your footsteps.
thanks.
I have a mental note to talk to Tim about CHOO to Kona...but I think that's all gumdrops and fairies right now...