Should I use latex tubes on race day?

Dawn Cass

Hello...looking for opinions for race day..IMWI just a couple weeks away.

I have never used latex tubes for racing....should I? If so...put them on for race day...or use once before to make sure no punch flat risk?

I understand less rolling resistance...so yes.

Easier to puncture....so no (?)

Side question...I have a new wheel cover from wheelbuilder. As latex go down quicker, I understand you "must" inflate on race morning. Is the adaptor for the pump easy to use on your own (with wheel over)? I hear it's a 2 person job.

Appreciate thoughts!

MattAaronson

A couple of thoughts.

- Latex tubes are faster and just feel different and better. I didn't use them until a year ago at Steelhead because I was worried about flats. At that race I was paranoid of flatting the whole time but no problem and I set a huge bike PR. So I'm sold on using them for now.

- make sure to carry a non-latex spare in case you flat, because CO2 will not keep pressure in latex for very long

- ALWAYS ride your race wheels before the race, latex or not. If you install the tires incorrectly and pinch a tube in the bead you are screwed and you won't know until shortly out of t1.

- for your wheelcover, learn how to inflate using the disc wheel adapter (aka crack pipe). It is easier with 2 people but you can do it on your own.

jaleslie

I agree with everything Matt said.....except the ability to inflate by yourself.....I can't do that.  But, it's easy to ask an athlete around you to help.  Definitely feel better/faster/smoother.  Definitely ride them at least once prior to race day and don't take them off after you've tested them.  Be very careful installing them...they like to sneak out under the edge and will blow when you try to inflate.  

 

I also have the WB wheel cover....as long as you install the cover correctly with the opening right over the valve, it's not too difficult.  You will need a crack pipe though.  

Coach Rich

Yes!

Sprinkle baby powder on them before installing and take your time installing. 

Check the tire/bead before inflating, making sure you don't see any of the tube between the tire and the bead.

Doing my RR tomorrow and rides this weekend on "normal" tires and butyl tubes. Will install latex tubes, my new race-y tires, and wheelcover on Monday. Inflate, ride around the block, etc, then drop off at LBS for Tribiketransport pickup.

With a wheelcover you'll need to use a "crackpipe" to inflate. I'll have one, as will others. Best to do as a 2-person job.

Dawn Cass

Thanks all...ordering now in that case! As EN will be racked together At MOO, I will reach out for help to inflate. I already have the crack pipe...I just haven't been able to do on my own hence the question.

Ian Kurth

Dawn -

As I was never able to successfully use the crack pipe consistently, I just used scissors to make a larger unilateral access hole. This allowed me to chuck the adapter, and use whatever pump was around. I also did this with a Dremel on one side of my Flo disc as well.

With the disc cover, they send stickers to cover the hole, but I just us packaging tape. Works great for me.

Kane Murphy

One thing to note with the wheel cover is to make sure your CO2 chuck also fits into the slot on the wheelcover should you have to fix a flat on the road. My normal pump and crackpipe has no problem fitting into the wheelcover, but I had to hunt around a bit for the right combination of CO2 inflator and valve stem length on the spare tube which actually fits. Some CO2 inflators have more head space, less clearance than the crackpipe. If you have time, it's better to find this out ahead of time instead of on the side of the road. My CO2 inflator fit just fine inside the wheelcover when the tube was flat, but as the tube filled up, it kinda locked the CO2 inflator into the wheel cover.

Mark Stahlkopf

2X what Ian said

William Jenks

Actually, latex tubes are MORE DIFFICULT to puncture than a standard butyl tube. So there's really no reason not to use them, especially for a race. If there is any reputation to the contrary, it comes from the fact that they weren't inflated enough and therefore people ride them with too low pressure. If you're riding at 50 or 60 lbs pressure, the tire might feel ok to the touch, but you're a lot more susceptible to pinch flats. So... go for it. Latex all the way.

One word of warning - a lot of us have bad experiences trying to use latex tubes a second time. I use them for racing and leave them in there until I have to change the tire or otherwise get too tired of inflating every day. But when I take them out, I toss them...I've had too many troubles reinstalling used latex tubes.

I do exactly the same thing with my disk cover...just make the hole a little bigger. I usually tape over the whole hole anyway to race, so it doesn't matter. :-)

Finally, with regard to CO2.... CO2 "escapes" from all tubes faster than "air" does. It's a microscopic phenomenon having to do with the natural porosity of the materials and the gas molecular properties; it's not a flaw. It's just exaggerated with latex, and you can lose enough pressure during 5-6 hours as to be a problem. That's why you always use the butyl tubes as your spares.

John Withrow

Posted By William Jenks on 28 Aug 2015 11:50 AM


Actually, latex tubes are MORE DIFFICULT to puncture than a standard butyl tube. So there's really no reason not to use them, especially for a race. If there is any reputation to the contrary, it comes from the fact that they weren't inflated enough and therefore people ride them with too low pressure. If you're riding at 50 or 60 lbs pressure, the tire might feel ok to the touch, but you're a lot more susceptible to pinch flats. So... go for it. Latex all the way.



One word of warning - a lot of us have bad experiences trying to use latex tubes a second time. I use them for racing and leave them in there until I have to change the tire or otherwise get too tired of inflating every day. But when I take them out, I toss them...I've had too many troubles reinstalling used latex tubes.



I do exactly the same thing with my disk cover...just make the hole a little bigger. I usually tape over the whole hole anyway to race, so it doesn't matter. :-)



Finally, with regard to CO2.... CO2 "escapes" from all tubes faster than "air" does. It's a microscopic phenomenon having to do with the natural porosity of the materials and the gas molecular properties; it's not a flaw. It's just exaggerated with latex, and you can lose enough pressure during 5-6 hours as to be a problem. That's why you always use the butyl tubes as your spares.

What he ^^ said.   All of it.  But especially this part:

One word of warning - a lot of us have bad experiences trying to use latex tubes a second time. I use them for racing and leave them in there until I have to change the tire or otherwise get too tired of inflating every day. But when I take them out, I toss them...

I would clarify that you can use them over and over and over again (I've put over a thousand miles of one set of mine.  BUT this is only if you NEVER actually remove them from the wheel/tube.  If you remove the tubes just once, throw them away.  I think they "adhere" to the rubber on the inside of the tire (baby powder supposedly helps but I'm not convinced).  So when you take them out of the tire, it makes micro-tears in the latex that you WILL discover when you reinstall and ride again. This discovery might come immediately or it might come in 10 miles or 50 miles or 250 miles, but it will happen and you have been warned that your flat will likely come at the worst possible time. 

Kane Murphy

Good idea just cutting the hole a little larger on the wheel cover - not sure why that didn't pop into my head sooner.

Chris Ciannella

On the disc cover, I've found if I unscrew the screw before and after the valve, I can squeeze my pump in. If you do this, someone will have to hold your bike.

Good luck

Dawn Cass

Thanks all....very good suggestions here.

Regarding cutting a larger hole, makes a lot of sense...and I suppose you just use electrical tape to make sure you cover it completely? (ie, it came with the stickers but guessing if you make the hole bigger they will not fit?)

About inflation...I normally inflate my current tires/tubes to around 110 PSI. With the latex tubes, would I do something different (more or less)?

Dawn

Coach Rich

Posted By Dawn Cass on 28 Aug 2015 04:22 PM






About inflation...I normally inflate my current tires/tubes to around 110 PSI. With the latex tubes, would I do something different (more or less)?



Dawn

Lots of good stuff here about tire inflation, race tires, etc. 

Dawn Cass

Thanks all / Rich - excellent information...and my new tubes arrived in the mail today! ;-)

Dawn Cass

All - another follow up question. I have ordered the tubes (Vittoria) however the valve is very short. I have ZIPP 808's on the back and 404's on the front. Sorry if this is a stupid question however can I just use a valve extender so it will fit....or is there another brand of tubes to get? When ordering I didn't actually see any other options (amazon or trisports.com)

Thanks!

Coach Rich

Posted By Dawn Cass on 02 Sep 2015 02:25 PM


All - another follow up question. I have ordered the tubes (Vittoria) however the valve is very short. I have ZIPP 808's on the back and 404's on the front. Sorry if this is a stupid question however can I just use a valve extender so it will fit....or is there another brand of tubes to get? When ordering I didn't actually see any other options (amazon or trisports.com)



Thanks!

I got Vittoria (I think) latex tubes with removeable valve core and 2x valve extenders into which I'm able to screw the valve core. So my process was:

• Remove cores from tubes
• Attach valve extenders
• Install cores into valve extender, basically creating my own 80mm+ latex tubes. I just don't trust a valve extender mounted directly to a tube with the core still in the tube. 

I did this at Wheelbuilder with a special valve core tool. You may need to take your stuff to an LBS for this tool. Again, this is me, I don't want to go the usual valve extender route. 

And I'm carrying 80mm butyl tubes as spares. 

MattAaronson

I have over the years used both the valve extenders Rich describes as well as the simple tube-type extenders that Rich doesn't trust. Both have worked well. The last time I bought latex tubes I was looking for the shortest stems possible to use with a Zipp 900 disc and all the ones with removable cores were too long. So I bought some of the standard ones and use them on my front wheel with the simple tube-type extender. I agree it is a bit sketchy to leave the valve unscrewed but as I said, I've never had a problem in the past. The downsides to this setup other than the "don't trust it" are (a) you need your spare to have an extender pre-mounted (with Teflon tape in the threads) and (b) if you need to let the air out of your tire (for example to remove it for travel) you need a long paper clip or something else that you can poke into the extender and depress the valve. On the flip side, if you use the removable core extenders you need to carry the little tool to unscrew the core and know that if you flat you'll have to install the extender (or, if you pre-installed it and flat the rear, you'll have to remove and re-assemble. No matter what you do, I HIGHLY recommend knowing what equipment you have, how it works, and how to change both a front and rear flat with your extender setup.

Dawn Cass

Matt / Rich - Thanks for the additional follow up. Makes sense and will make sure to get what I need from LBS. Good points and think I have what I need. Plan on setting things up for this weekend...take everything for the last spin around the block to make sure all in good working order. Will give you a shout if I need more however thanks again.