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Any advice about my long run pacing?

Douglas SutherlandDouglas Sutherland
in Coaching Forum 🧢

I have been on the HIM plan now for 1 month and have logged 4 long runs. Intended Z2 pace is 7:48/mile.

Week 1: 13.1 miles in 1:41 (7:47/mile) elevation gain 650ft, cool am run. Weight 183. Just came off last week of bike focus.

Week 2: 12.4 miles in 1:40 (8:08/mile) elevation gain 600ft, warm afternoon run.

Week 3: 12.6 in 1:44 (8:18/mile) elevation gain 564ft warn afternoon run.

Week 4: 12.4 miles in 1:49 (8:47/mile) elevation gain 850ft. Weight 179.5. Very early (430am) cold/wet am run.

From an execution of the progressive run plan, week 1 was basically perfect. Each subsequent week have felt increasingly sluggish and so when it is time to bump the pace, there is less and less in there. I am taking in about 300cal/hour between gels and gatorade, no hunger.

So, my question is is this progressive slow down normal as one builds volume inside of a HIM plan? If not, what should my response be to all this? 

My numbers today: 78.9CTL, 109.8ATL, -36.9TSB vs the day of the first long run: 66CTL, 61ATL, 6.8TSB.

DS

Comments

  • JeremyBehlerJeremyBehler
    Could be a couple things. Are conditions similar? Humidity (even in cooler weather) can make a huge difference. Looks like the fastest was a cool AM run which suggests this may be at least part of the driver.

    How does your HR compare across those runs?

    For HIM training I wouldn't expect to see such a drastic drop off, particularly race pace runs.

  • Douglas SutherlandDouglas Sutherland
    I did two runs in the cool early am (first and last), and two in the relative warmth (around 74, 2nd and 3rd). Not sure about humidity, but we do not normally have much here in PNW.

    HR data:
    Week 1: Ave HR 156, Peak HR 166

    Week 2: Ave HR 150, Peak HR 160

    Week 3: Ave HR 152, Peak HR 167

    Week 4: Ave HR 146, Peak HR 160
  • Douglas SutherlandDouglas Sutherland
    I just read with interest your comments on Chris Hardbeck's recent post, with comments re: TSB of -40 and lower. One thing about this though - I entered the EN HIM advanced plan into TP before this block, and there are weekends where TSB drops to -66 before drifting back up to -40 at best before the following weekend's next big drop. What to make of this? Have I selected the wrong plan (i.e. go back to beginner?) or have the plans not yet considered the TSB balance? DS
  • JeremyBehlerJeremyBehler
    I think it's a combination of effort and weather. The first was in cool weather and your HR was the highest of all, so both supporting the fastest pace.

    The last was also in cool conditions, but your HR was 10 BPM lower....that would lead to the lower pace despite good conditions.
  • Coach PatrickCoach Patrick
    Hard to compare the AM v PM, Cool vs Warm. Plus there would be some fatigue...but I don't think running at 4:30am will ever give you an ideal pace.

    Interesting to note there's an increasing HR for each run...so you are working harder, just not seeing the results. Normally I would be okay with that as your fatigue sets in...but losing 1 min per mile in Week 4 is wonky...loosing it in Week 17 after an epic week, fine.

    First I would suggest you do Wed Bike in AM so you have 24 hours of rest.

    Second, I would lock in your Thursday run to a set time vs bouncing around (if you can).

    Third, build your pace on those runs....first 3 miles to warm up / get in a groove..then start working the splits down a few seconds every time...that negative split action is where it's at.

    Final Q -- are you losing run speed on Threshold Run intervals as well?
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