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Two IMs in one month?

What's the closest time between IMs that is realistic without doing more harm than good?

Background: I signed up for IMKY as a backup race in case I did not KQ at IMMOO.  Good news is I did qualify, but now I'm thinking of racing in Louisville as well.

I broached the subject with Coach P who said no, take some time off and enjoy life...nothing good can happen.  While I agree that there is little to gain I have an urge to still race.  My thinking is the following:

1 - I've already paid for it, so why not?

2 - I think it could be a good experiment to see how I race with a non-traditional build and recovery.

3 - My body feels great...other than my road rash which is almost healed.  I haven't done anything in the last week, but I did do a very short run and my legs were begging to go faster/longer.  So I think my body is ready.

4 - I have yet to have a 'bad' race and the risk would be higher for a bad race which (similar to #2 above) would help me experience what that feels like, where/how it sets in, etc.

So....Maybe a little to gain, but is there really anything big to lose?  Even if my body is torn up I could take six weeks really easy and be ready for DOS.

Comments

  • Both my own experience trying doubles, and observing others here do them with varying degrees of success, here are the things you might want to ask yourself:

    • What's my motivation? It sounds like it's "I like to race. I'm on a high now, and I would like that to continue." Fair enough.
    • Am I willing to ramp back up my training over the next two weeks to the same level of effort, time and distance I was at about 3-5 weeks out from Wisconsin? And is my family and work supportive of that?
    • You may not realise how deep in the well, mentally, you went during your race last week. Am I willing, or able, to do that again, without the extra impetus of trying to get a Kona slot? I've found that just going out and "doing" an Ironman is much harder, mentally, that trying to race with a laser focus on winning. It's just too long a day.
    • The $$ is a sunk cost - you spent it long ago, that should not a factor here at all, IMO.
    • The risk of injury is pretty low, IMO. You will be very willing to go easy or drop out if you feel  things aren't right with your body, I would think. Bigger risks to consider would be a bike crash (yeah, what are the odds?), or prolonged race fatigue afterwards, taking 3-6 months to get out of. It happens, not often, but it can.

    Bottom line for me: I strongly suggest only doing this if you are willing to commit to a high performance goal. Like winning, or at least qualifying again. The people we've seen here do this with some success in the recent past (Jenn, Dave Tallo, Tim Cronk) all had top level goals staring at them for the second race. You're a smart enough racer, and will be well trained enough that you will not go over your limits, out into the zone where long-term injury might become a risk.

    "Only bad things can happen" - I don't agree. Each time your perform well, that adds resilience and confidence, for which there is no substitute. There's nothing quite so satisfying as passing on a Kona slot cause you've already go one. I've experienced that 3 times, and it's really a kick.

  • Jeremy...my experience is doing 2 IMs 8 weeks apart.  I did it last year and doing it again this (IMMT- Kona double).  Maybe because I'm older than you, but I can tell you it was/is hard to recover and do well at both races.  It was both phyically and mentally hard. This year I took the first 2 weeks post race even easier than last year after IMMT, and I think it has helped.   But it sounds like your recovery is going well and you are itching to race again.  My one caution is that you may feel recovered (soreness gone) but really probably aren't.  This is the time you are most suseptible to injury...the first 3 weeks after an IM.   So if you want to do the race, go for it.  Just be careful not to injury yourself.
  • Jeremy - read this article. Justin suggests that the correct gap is 2 weeks or 4+ wks. 3 is the worst.

    http://www.endurancecorner.com/Justin_Daerr/bridging_ironman2
  • If you're feeling good, go for it! I kinda like the grind that comes between two races, and the problem solving of how to move a tired carcass to be ready to traverse *another* 140.6 miles is a perverse type of challenge. Kinda the type of challenge that stares you down on an epic week where you're shagged after xx days of work, but still curious about whether you can put on just one more ride.

    Because you have punched your kona ticket, you really can make this a learning experience ... maybe experiment with a week run focus and week bike focus in the buildup. Or, try out a "run / walk" strategy to see if you clock a faster marathon. Or move "Mile 18" to "Mile 16" and see if you can start your push with 10 miles to go in the run.  (edit: or go all Von Hoenacker, and push right on the edge all day to see if magic happens).  Although I agree that putting together back-to-back A efforts isn't realistic, I think people are surprised when they end up doing a double in a month, or some other significant overachievement, because it just seemed so unfathomable before you actually set out. Kinda like the IM distance looked to us all at one point ... and now it's just a tick on the odometer that you pass on your way to "really, really far."


    If your head is clear and all your parts - bike and body - are up for it, I say go all in. My pointers on a methodology were set out in this thread ( http://members.endurancenation.us/Forums/tabid/57/aft/19465/Default.aspx). The only other point - and this is lifting from the same site that Paul linked to above - it recover like it's your job. Actually, read that article on that site to give you a full sense of how that recovery would look. I think it would eclipse what you (or most of us who are not pros) would normally do, but an extraordinary achievement calls for extraordinary measures.


  • Jeremy I've done it twice... 1st time was IMFL 3 weeks after KONA... I completed KONA at say 95% with my eye and focus on IMFL the entire time... IMFL was the race of my life.... The difference is you actually RACED IMWI.... That said I kinda disagree with the article and my experience has been after every IM I have ever done I feel strongest at the 3 week mark...A while ago there was a thread on ST about this and numerous reports of people feeling superhuman after a very hard event in the vicinity of the 3 week window , thinking being that is when the fitness bump hits you from that event, assuming proper recovery of course.... So for me I think 3 weeks is the sweet-spot offering enough recovery and ready to go again.... 2 weeks = not enough recovery.... 4 weeks = starting to lose too much fitness and not enough time to train .... The 2nd time I did it was KONA 13 days after IMCHOO.... with a total fail in KONA , but I raced IMCHOO 100% and only had 13 days??? I VOTE YES!
  • Wow..thanks for the great feedback. I'm feeling spectacular right now, but unfortunately I won't be able to race IMLOU with this great level of fitness I've built. I had a repo man show up at my house this weekend to repossess my bikes, running shoes, and swim goggles as I've been overdrawn on my SAU bank account for some time. I have been pretty wealthy when it comes to SAUs so got out of the habit of checking my balance image

    Look forward to cheering on the Lou Crew virtually
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