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Recovery is the Key for this Old Guy

Some thoughts ---

Age 53 and a half now.  I've been quite cognitive of my change in perceived effort over the last 8 years.  It's weird; I can feel Father Time slowly chipping away at my energy levels, though I must say compared to some other friend of family dads my age, I am in a pretty good spot comparatively.

During the last 8 years the lost of energy has been noticeable, however it has been solely in very small increments.  EN workouts have been readily achievable during the latter half of my 40s and into the my 50s.  But now with age 53, the incremental decline is more noticeable.  With EN workout durations I can readily achieve the desired targets, even the wattage levels on the bike.  The big difference is the necessity to take longer recovery period between intervals (this is true for both run and bike) otherwise the subsequent interval has a much greater perceived effort than the prior one. 

For myself, I have found that adding an additional 1min rest period, above and beyond what the EN training plan calls for, is the solution for me whenever the bike intervals exceed 8min in duration and whenever the run intervals exceed 1 mile in duration.  With the extra recovery duration, I find that this old fart can still hit the pace and wattage goals within the intervals. I just need a little more recovery to get set for the next intervals.

Comments

  • Good observation. I just turned 59 and the thing I notice is I need to have recovery days planned into the weeks or I get to a place where I get sick or injured. I'm thinking about putting in lighter weeks every third to fourth week to aid recovery so I can keep moving upward.
  • @Mark -
    I hear ya there too. Sometimes a day off does wonders; even two occasionally and I am fresh again ready to go. I also rarely run on consecutive days. Back to back runs greater than an hour take their toll as does back to back intensity runs, while shorter duration at Z1 or low Z2 I can handle back to back. It's about finding that sweat-spot of gaining fitness and recovering fully.
  • David, I'm 69 and with you on the extra minute (+) between intervals. I was not a member of EN in my 40s when I began doing triathlons. and only sprints in the early ages. once moving to IM distances and the work for EN I noticed I better add time to those longer intervals of an injury will put me soooo far back I get to z4 way too quickly. if I work harder now I am unable to get to z4 without a great effort, but I consider that a victory. I plan to up my weight training to be sure these older muscles are working as best they can. I say my number one goal is "DON'T GET HURT!" that really pushes improvement back for us old guys (not sure about womens endurance...i'll bet it's better). sure a Kona slot is still a goal, but as you say being in better and better condition that most folks in our age group in general is still a great goal. KEEP IT UP
  • For the first time, well, ever, I'm on Injured Reserve with overuse injuries. One swimming related - left ulnar tendonitis - and one run related - right high hamstring tendonitis. So I've been doing a bit of thinking along these lines the past four weeks while impatiently waiting to heal up.

    One thought is the multi-level nature of "recovery". There is a need for recovery within intervals of equal effort; between such intervals; between workouts; recovering from a long or hard race; recovering between seasons punctuated by an A race; and following an injury. Speaking of the last, it has long been obvious to me, both in my role as a physician/surgeon, and in my life as an athlete, that there is a direct correlation between age and the time it takes for an injury (like a surgical wound or an overused tendon) to "heal". [I put heal in quotations, because even that term is problematic. Does healing mean it no longer hurts at rest? No longer hurts when used? Can be documented to appear normal on imaging studies like and MRI? Is no longer more susceptible to re-injruy? And which of those should be used to allow one to return to normal physical use?]

    What used to take 6 weeks to feel better now takes 12. So it would make sense, I suppose, that at a different level of recovery, say, between intervals, what used to take 2 minutes might take 4. Now, over the years, when I've been making a decision about how much time to take between intervals, or workouts, I've used the following criteria:

    • For intervals, I follow the EN workouts suggested times, unless I can't hit the time/power/or pace indicated, inc which case I'll lengthen the rest interval. If that doesn't work, I will next shorten the work interval. If that doesn't work, I pull the plug. Usually not an issue for running, which these days seems to have only two intervals. But for swimming or biking, thats my strategy. 
    • Workout frequency, I use a combination of following signs of over-reaching and observation of my ability to hit the prescribed effort level. Signs include: needing more sleep/longer nap; losing weight; feeling grump or depressed. On rare (maybe once a month or so) occasions, I have started a workout only to quickly abandon it.
    • This year, I seem to have failed to pay attention to signs of physical discomfort in both my elbow and butt (high hamstring). In the past, I have almost always been able to back off a bit for a short (1 week or so) period of time, and then "worked through" such discomfort, and it would always get better. This year, that didn't happen fast enough, and I showed up at a key race (Kona) unable to either swim or run with any authority. You might say I miss-timed my ability to recover.

    I suspect that I have not been applying these principles to my need for recovery between seasons. So I went back into my training log to see what I could learn: did I put myself in a danger zone by being too greedy year-over-year? "Down Time" below is a relative term, usually indicating unstructured swim/bike/run @ 7-8 hours a week, and/or skiing, which for me is a pretty intense activity. Here's what I found (I wish I could access by workouts before 2007, but they are hiding on a retired computer which is no longer functional):

    • 2007 - 1 IM, Season ended with Xterra WC end Oct, 2 weeks @ 7-8 hours a week, then back to 10+/ week (OS type work) by mid Nov. 1 week down time
    • 2008 - 2 IMs, June/Nov. 1 week easy, 4 weeks @ 7hrs/wk, five weeks skiing mixed with SBR, then 2 OS followed by 2 IM cycles end Nov 20. So 2+ months of down time
    • 2009 - Age-up year, 3 IMs. Season ends Nov 16. 1 week easy, 5 weeks @ 7hr/, 6 wks mixed ski with S/B/R, then back at it for another attempt @ 3 IMs. 3 months down time
    • 2010 - 3 IMs planned, Cut short mid-Sept bike accident, back to OS work in 3 months downtime.
    • 2011 - 2 IMs. End season Nov 20, took 3 months off from biking and running,
    • 2012 - 2 IMs. swam and skied until mid Feb, then OS, and 2 training cycles. Season Ends Oct 14. 2 weeks downtime, started OS in Nov.
    • 2013 - 2 IMs. 2 Full Training cycles, season ends Nov 18, 2 weeks downtime, start OS in Dec.
    • 2014 - 3 IMs. Start OS mid Dec, mix in some skiing, 2.5 IM training cycles, Season ends Nov 16. 1 week downtime
    • 2015 - 3 IMs planned. Nov 17, 4 weeks of s/b/r mixed with skiing; Start OS mid-dec, begin what seems like an endless cycle of injuries and accidents: Symptoms of R Patellar-femoral Syndrome starting mid-Jan; Head injury ski crash early Feb; R low-back/spine problems on ToC mid-May; recurrence of this last two miles @ IM LP end July; R high hamstring tendonitis starting 2 weeks later, just now healing after 4 weeks of complete rest from running.

    Looking at this list, it's a wonder I didn't start to break down earlier. In 2008/9/10/11, I was routinely getting three months of unstructured reduced physical activity each year. My results in those years were pretty darn good.I was routinely winning races, getting superb time (PRs, Course records) and qualifying for Kona. The last 4 years, I have routinely been disappointed with my IM performances. The only thing which go me back to Kona several times was the precipitous drop-off in the presence and performance of my age peers.

    This year, I am taking 2 months of enforced down time (I have hernia surgery scheduled for this Friday) followed by another two months primarily devoted to skiing. Then, I'm hoping to do only one IM at the end of the year, and key in on some shorter races @ the USAT National Championships. Time will tell how well I'l respond to that.

    Since this is the OFs forum, I'll end with some age-related comments. Yeah, it's true we need more recovery of all kinds as our bodies wind down. We are still capable of remarkable things. But one thing which weighs on me is the ticking of my biological clock. A "younger" man (late 40s) might be very willing to take a year or two completely off and feel confident that he can get back into the game. Me, I'm having thoughts that each time I try this might be my last, and so I have to take full advantage of every day I have left. What I need to learn is that "taking full advantage of every day I have left" might actually mean using that day (or week, or month) to rest and get ready to enjoy whatever I have left do.

  • I'll be 61 next month.  I also notice I need more rest time between intervals some, but not all, of the time.  I'll follow the same two modifications as Al.  First add more time to the rest interval.  If that doesn't work, then shorten the length of the interval ( do 2 x 5' vs 1 x 10').  If I'm still not able to hit the watts or pace running or swimming, I end the session. Retreat and live to fight another day.

    I've learned that I need more rest between hard sessions than when I was younger.  I've also learned that if I take complete rest for more than 10 days, my fitness drops like a rock..  So use it or lose it.  So now I only take an extended complete rest if I'm ill, after an IM or if I'm injured.  However, after seeing the trend about rest over multiple years in Al's post, I think I may take a bit more time off between now and Jan.  I too have been on the multiple IM per year schedule the last few years and I know I need a break.  So only one IM (Chatt) for sure (well maybe two as I'm tempted by AZ again) but lots of local Olys next summer for me.  I just need a break from the endless IM training grind.

  • @ Al - what the heck is "unstructured physical activity"? I'm either training or doing nothing. I took 1 week easy after Louisville and immediately settled into my offseason training volume of about 75% IM level, but with less intensity. I'm worried about consistency and the affect a long break would have on me at this point. I intend to have short break periods the next couple of years as well, but then should probably start increasing them as long as I do something to keep fit...but what? No xc skiing around here for sure!

    @ Bruce - looks like you now have 2 IMs next year! image
  • @ Paul...Yep the AZ desert is calling me again.   Have a score to settle with that course.

  • Well said Al. I find as I have been aging (turn 58 right after IMAZ) that my fragile body has become even more so. I find, particularly on the bike that I do not have the power or strength and I am more susceptible to injury. (Last race was IMAZ 2013, and the last 18 months have been nonstop issues with 2 failed meniscectomies and now a referral for Stem Cell Therapy.) Like most of us that are driven, it is difficult to shut down the machine, even a little. We know that the body does not get stronger from training, it gets stronger from recovery. I suppose the same must be true as we age, but it is just so hard to sit it out.

  • Posted By Paul Hough on 03 Nov 2015 03:50 PM
    @ Al - what the heck is "unstructured physical activity"?
    Stuff that doesnt follow a plan. "Hmmm, today I think I'l swim for a mile." Next day, "Sun's out, I'll ride for 75 minutes". No intervals, no specific goals. Includes skiing, weight room, stretching, walking, leaf raking, etc. My head gets a break from goal driven activity, but my body retains the feeling and value of movement. 38-40 weeks a year of OS and A race training seems to be my limit. The other 3 months, I need a psychic break front that, I have concluded.
  • I like how Al broke down the various types of "recovery" below...
    {multi-level nature of "recovery". There is a need for recovery within intervals of equal effort; between such intervals; between workouts; recovering from a long or hard race; recovering between seasons punctuated by an A race; and following an injury}

    @53 I probably qualify as an OF but hardly think of myself as one... I also believe this discussion applies to all and like almost every thing all the various recovery intervals/time is highly individual...

    Some of my thoughts on Recovery/Rest during intervals.
    There is a big difference between training and Racing or RR type training. For racing/RR's/ endurance type training minimal rest is key.. For most of power/speed training the length/intensity of rest/recovery intervals accomplishes different things , and works different systems/adaptations , there is certainly room for a variety. When I first started this game I kept to minimal rest, keeping the intensity a bit high on those rest intervals because I was always trying to keep the total IF or pace/speed of the wko as high as possible.... NOW I could care less what the total numbers of the WKO is and only focus on the work within the interval. I have gradually over time increased my time between sets with lower volume but only do this on Z4-5 work while accomplishing more overall quality work... Swim- I love the hard/easy sets in swimming allowing for more recovery .... Bike- intervals are often dictated by terrain so vary quite a bit but when on the trainer will do a minimum same time rest/work on Z5 and at least 5min @ .50 on Z4... Run - will almost do equal rest/work intervals all the way up to 1 mile repeats..

    I have set some Self Imposed limits/ targets of total work per session/week that I think I can handle on an ongoing basis and will hardly ever exceed these...
    Swim- up to 2000yds of intervals per session up to twice a week but usually only once.
    Bike- up to 40min FTP one session once a week , up to 20min V02 on session once per week. Next is an either or and depends on HIM or IM specific....up to 2-3hrs ABP or up to 4-5hr IM pace once session once per week .
    Run - up to 4 miles Z4 once per session once per week OR up to 2 miles Z5 once per session once per week...

    Rest within the Week- a day off or 2 days easy.... this is another when I first started I could NOT go easy... now I can GO easy... what do I consider easy? 10-15 seconds per 100yds swim slower than threshold , 60-90" slower than my EP for the run, IF .50-60 on the bike...

    Rest after Racing- for true recovery in general , I believe in the 1 day per every mile run , so 3 days for sprint, 6 for OLY, 13 for HIM and 26 for IM...

    Rest between Seasons- I think as a minimum 2-4 weeks downtime for all SBR but then after that is a good time to do single sport , lower intensity , no structure.... etc MTB , trail running , just ride , swim, or run with no targets or goals.... Letting the ATL/CTL fall as low as you can before starting a structured build.
  • Tim, you mentioned that you allow the CTL to fall as low as possible before starting a structured build. How far out from a race do you do that? I'm sure it depends on the race, but let's say you were going to do an IM or an HIM as your first race of the season. When would you start that build?
  • @Mark- JMO and Theory but I have read similar as far as letting ATL/CTL fall as low as you can once or twice a year... It makes sense to me that if one wants to really improve and breakout then this is a good idea, rather than holding the training levels high year round, but actually cycle it... IMO this is best achieved right after the season with some real down time... As far as when to start a build? and How long? I do like the 8 week range for HIM and 12 week range for IM... Both of those assume you have already built back up to some semblance of fitness like the OS.... Going over my own TP for the last 3 years I have 6 peaks of CTL above 150 and 4 troughs of CTL below 90.... After IMAZ I plan to get that under 90 again....
  • As I was out of EN house for the last summer 2015 race season I was on my
    own without a plan. Having been a member here since 2010 I do know enough about
    myself and how to train me. I’m 59 now and aged up to 60 for this season 2016
    coming. I too notice a decline in my ability to recover and since I wasn’t
    following a structured plan for racing last year I found out the idea, for me,
    was there isn’t 7 days in a week for training. For me it’s closer to 9 sometimes
    8 depending on feel. I had recovery days at times every 4th day. That recovery
    allowed me to keep my head in the game as well as physically recovering.

    My big 3 and order of operation are 1. HR 2. RPE and 3. Speed or power.
    Since the racing is done in the summer HR was key in training, racing and
    recovery. I’m still happy to be playing!



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