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Run Durability 2 B-A-A run question

Nemo BrauchNemo Brauch
in General Training Discussions

I'm starting Run Durability 2 and the long run on Sunday has the following instructions:

70' as 40' regular, then final 30' as @ B-A-A GRP (Below-At-Above Goal Race Pace) in 3-minute increments. 

I'm interpreting the above to mean the following:

     -  40' @ LRP/Zone 1/Easy

     -   3' @ just below my GRP (so if GRP= 10:00, this would be maybe 9:55?)

    -    3' @ GRP

    -    3' @ just above GRP (if GRP= 10:00, this would be 10:05

    - Repeat above 3/3/3 process until 30' have expired

BUT- I could also see how maybe this is supposed to mean the following:

 - 40' @ LRP/Zone 1/ Easy

 - 10' @ just below GRP by 3' (9:57)

 - 10' @ GRP (10:00)

 - 10' @ just above GRP by 3' (10:03)



Of course there could also be a 3rd option I had not considered !!!  Anyone know what this is supposed to mean?



Comments

  • Edwin CroucherEdwin Croucher

    When I did this last year, I asked Coach P the same question about "regular". He said that 40' is tempo pace. (harder than B-A-A). Enjoy the run, this program really works. ( B-A-A 15 GRP = Below At Above Goal Race Pace by 15 seconds or 15" slower, Then GRP then 15" faster)

  • Nemo BrauchNemo Brauch

    Posted By Edwin Croucher on 12 Nov 2015 02:45 PM

    When I did this last year, I asked Coach P the same question about "regular". He said that 40' is tempo pace. (harder than B-A-A). Enjoy the run, this program really works.

    See- there WAS a 3rd option I had not considered!!!  Now I'm totally confused.

  • Edwin CroucherEdwin Croucher

    If you lok up the 3 year plan inthe wiki, the Long Term Ironman Run Improvement is listed in year 3. (pdf). It is a great resource.

  • Nemo BrauchNemo Brauch

    Posted By Edwin Croucher on 12 Nov 2015 02:55 PM

    If you lok up the 3 year plan inthe wiki, the Long Term Ironman Run Improvement is listed in year 3. (pdf). It is a great resource.

    Pretty sure that's where I first found the definition for GRP (which took a lot of digging).  But the link to that PDF isn't working anymore. 

  • Scott GiljumScott Giljum
    Nemo, I believe it means you start below (or slower) than GRP, then at, then above (or faster). I would take regular as just GRP or a comfortable pace. I believe the cycling through the 3 minutes is what is intended, and then repeat. So I think you have it right in the first scenario, except to flip the meanings on below and above.
  • Edwin CroucherEdwin Croucher

    Try this link

    https://app.box.com/s/587befveymgdul7lta8l

     

  • Nemo BrauchNemo Brauch
    Thanks Edwin, that link worked for me. Unfortunately, still doesn't quite answer the question! I'll post to my Micro thread and see if I can get Coach P to weigh in.
  • Coach PatrickCoach Patrick
    TEAM - It should be slower (Above = Slower, At = At Pace, Below = Faster pace).

    So if your Goal Run Pace (GRP) is 10:00 mi / mile, then Below is 10:15s, at = 10:00s and above is 9:45s...
  • Nemo BrauchNemo Brauch

    Posted By Coach Patrick on 17 Nov 2015 03:23 PM


    TEAM - It should be slower (Above = Slower, At = At Pace, Below = Faster pace).



    So if your Goal Run Pace (GRP) is 10:00 mi / mile, then Below is 10:15s, at = 10:00s and above is 9:45s...

    Sorry P- but this still doesn't make sense!  You say "Above = Slower" but your example has Above at 9:45's which is faster than 10's.  Also, what does  " in 3-minute increments" mean?

  • Trish MarshallTrish Marshall

    his second statement is the correct one!  BAA is 15" slower, at race pace and 15" faster.  3' increments just means for the 30' you will cycle through running 3' at (using your 10mm pace as race pace) 10:15's for 3', 10:00 for 3', 9:45's for 3", 10:15's  for 3' and so on.  It gives you a little of each and the slower after the faster is a little recovery.  

    I hope this helps!  

  • Nemo BrauchNemo Brauch

    Posted By Trish Marshall on 19 Nov 2015 08:15 AM

    his second statement is the correct one!  BAA is 15" slower, at race pace and 15" faster.  3' increments just means for the 30' you will cycle through running 3' at (using your 10mm pace as race pace) 10:15's for 3', 10:00 for 3', 9:45's for 3", 10:15's  for 3' and so on.  It gives you a little of each and the slower after the faster is a little recovery.  

    I hope this helps!  

    Thanks.  Coach P also confirms this is correct.  I think the word "increment" was confusing me.  

  • Bruce ThompsonBruce Thompson
    Hey Nemo...I think you finally have your answer.  But one comment.  I've used this plan completely in 2014 and partially in 2015  (had an injury so couldn't do it all), resulting in KQ both years.  What I learned was that by far the most important thing was the number of runs per week.  That is what builds the durability and eventually the stamina (both mental and physical) for being able to hold your pace past the Line.  Get those runs in, no matter how long or fast,  and I wouldn't be so worried about if you are running exactly 10:00 pace, then 9:45s or whatever.  Having said that, try to follow the BAA plan but some days the legs just won't cooperate with your garmin.  Those days do a Jens, and say "shut up legs, run!".  And singing a Beatles song helps too. 
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]
    Okay - another point of clarification. Nemo is taking the "regular" portion to be LRP. I was thinking it would be GRP. Which is correct?
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]
    Okay - another point of clarification. Nemo is taking the "regular" portion to be LRP. I was thinking it would be GRP. Which is correct?
  • Nemo BrauchNemo Brauch

    Posted By Jim Daley on 21 Nov 2015 10:29 PM


    Okay - another point of clarification. Nemo is taking the "regular" portion to be LRP. I was thinking it would be GRP. Which is correct?

    Good point.  Is "Regular" LRP or GRP?

  • Edwin CroucherEdwin Croucher

    Nemo, "regular" in the run durability program refers to tempo pace. I found this to be a difficult level to achieve when you crank up the volume.

  • [Deleted User][Deleted User]
    Hmmmm. This seems to beg the question - what is tempo pace then? As defined by Jack Daniels it would seem to be too fast. After doing the run durability 1 plan, the Sunday runs were always at "goal race pace" - halfway between Z1 and Z2. So going into the run durability 2 plan I took "regular" pace to be GRP?
  • Nemo BrauchNemo Brauch
    I agree Jim. Saying it's "Tempo" pace only adds another question in my mind because we don't have an agreed upon definition of Tempo within EN. My definition of Tempo would be something along the lines of a 10K pace, which would essentially mean running slower for the interval work- and that doesn't make sense.
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