TSS for core/strength workouts?

Dan Cioaca

I've been using TSS for a while as a way to monitor my fatigue and ensure proper rest. However, I'm wondering how to account for strength and core workouts. While they definitely make me sore and have an impact on my traditional sbr workouts, and as a result I'd like to log them, I'm not sure how to do the translation from sets / time to TSS. If I do the outseason M/F workouts for core, upper body, and swim bands for 45 minutes, should I just ignore that for the purposes of TSB, or is there a suggested way to translate to TSS?

Al Truscott

I count the hours, but not any TSB, for any weight room or core work. My thinking: the stuff I do, at least, does not seem to impact my ability to do downstream workouts. Meaning, I can do weights/core at 0800, and hit the pool or trainer @ 0900 with no decrement to my ability to do the scheduled workout. So from the point of view of triathlon training, the is no "stress" to the "training" I am doing.

Gabe Peterson

If you wear a HR monitor, TrainingPeaks will give you an hrTSS. I found that about 30 minutes for vigorous circuit style lifting equates to about 20 TSS points. It's not a lot but could be useful in tracking your overall fatigue.

To Al's point, make sure the strength workouts don't interfere with your SBR workouts. I find I have to do lighter weights with higher reps than back in my strength focused days. I also find I can't do strength workouts on swim days without impacting my swim but am fine on run and bike days. Your mileage may vary.

tim cronk

I've thought about this quite a bit recently as I have started doing some strength training.... Quite often I have suggested to Heather when she goes off to a Pilates or Yoga class that she should log something while I sit on the couch and recover :-).... If you think about it , everything we do is TSS , so where do you draw the line? Walking the dog, chores around the house, going to work , running the kids around... All of this comes at some cost....

Back to the question: While we know there is "some" cost associated with strength training on our SBR (amount would be debatable) it is not Swim/Bike/Run... So I have decided NOT to log TSS for any strength wko's.... Another way I look at it and this is just my own thought process on what I have read and believe to be good theory... TSS is often described using the "metabolic cost" or "physiological cost" with aerobic/anaerobic intensities to your body... TSS was originally modeled off the HR system (which gives good credibility to Gabes practice) ...I gotta believe most endurance athletes version of strength training has little to do with endurance so what is the true cost to a few sore muscles?... I have no doubt that strength training can and does stress these systems (depending on the individuals intensity) but the amount will be very debatable...

So if you choose to assign a TSS for a strength wko? Wear a HR and log it like Gabe (this would be hard to argue against and would work great for other sports like skiing etc) . NO HR ? - I would guess around .5 TSS per minute , 30 per hr for a normal session?.... Very vigorous maybe 1 TSS per minute or 60 per hour ?.... At some point just like our FTP a 60 min wko would be 100TSS.... What is that? Probably some crossfit competition all out where you collapse and cant move after 1hr ?

MattAaronson

I have worn an HR monitor for core work before. My 22' core routine is 10 TSS points and my 10' myrtle routine is 5 TSS points. Right in line with Tim's estimate of 0.5 TSS/min. Not a lot of points!!

Rich Stanbaugh

@Al & @Tim - I am with you. I manually add 1 TSS for all swims, yoga, strength workouts, etc. The TSS / CTL models seem to work really well for biking and running, but any TSS that gets added for other activities seems to "inflate" my CTL. I would rather have it too small than to have it inflated. I add 1 TSS because When I look at the performance management chart, I hate to see the red dots on the floor :-)

FWIW - I am trying out Bikram yoga as an Out Season activity (tired of getting destroyed at hot races). I am pretty sure that I earn more than 1 TSS in that 90-minute class. I still log it as 1 for the above reasons.

Al Truscott

I'm starting to get a little anxious with this talk of assigning a TSS to all manner of physical activity. So I investigated my anxiety, and this is what is disturbing me: TSSs are meant to build a Performance Management Chart (PMC), the purpose of which is to help one prepare for a specific event. For us, that is (almost always) triathlon. Reflect for a moment on the concept of "sport-specific training". The closer the activity is to the actual event, the more effective it is as training. Few people would argue that you could prepare for a triathlon by spending most of the time lifting weights in a gym. So the question is, when I am looking at my PMC to determine my form and fitness going into a race, does it really matter how many push ups I did, how many pounds and reps I had on those bench presses, or how long I can hold a plank?

One of the values of the PMC is its use by 1,000s of athletes and their coaches. So we can learn a few things, such as the safe upper limit for the rate of rise of the CTL, what CTL level going into a race is associated with "elite" performance, what TSB should be during taper, etc. If one is not following the standard protocol for PMC elements, then its hard to apply the knowledge gained by others.

Since Oct 10, I've been doing mostly non-triathlon physcial activity: walking, body-weight exercises, weight room work, and now skiing. I did some easier swimming and cycling on a trainer. WKO assigned a TSS for my walking (a pittance, like 10-15 pts per hour), the swimming I added in at a very low level, to reflect the easy work I was doing, the cycling was just plugged in per WKO's algorithm. So I've watched my CTL drop from 130 to 50 in the past 7-8 weeks. Now, skiing every day, I certainly *feel* like I'm working hard, just as I do on the exercise mat and in the weight room. But I give myself no TSS for it, because while I think it makes me a better triathlete, I don't think it has any value in getting me ready for racing. I think back to last year in Jan when I skied hard for 12 days, came back and raced a hard 10k right away, and hurt myself because I did not have sufficient sport specific training to race at that speed.

scott dinhofer

@al - can you recommend some good places to read up on CTL?

Rich Stanbaugh

Here are a couple links that I have used to better understand CTL, ATL, PMC, etc... Not trying to pre-empt Al, he probably has other good ones.

Performance Management Chart

CTL

TSS

TSB

Managing Training with TSB

Al Truscott

The training peaks web site articles would have been my first source. Hunter Allen's book is another resource...http://www.amazon.com/Training-Racing-Power-Meter-2nd-ebook/dp/B007WZ55XI/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1450216766&sr=1-1&keywords=hunter+allen

Late responding, small matter of 15" of fresh powder which fell betweem 3PM yesterday and 8 AM today. That's what I live for.