Home General Training Discussions

Time in Zone 5

I'm finding that it's hard to accrue time in zone 5 on the bike.  Today's 4 x 4' at 110% was the first meaningful chunk of time in zone 5, but only about 4 minutes total.  (Last week's 5-minute power test showed about 2.5 min in z5)

4 minutes in z5 seems like a short chunk of time, considering there were 16 total minutes of intervals.  And I really have to push hard to get my HR past zone 4 - average power today was 304.  Part of this I'm sure is not having much experience with these intervals (this is just my 7th week of EN training).

Is such a relatively small amount of time in z5 typical?  Could my HR zones be off?

Comments

  • Keep pushing. See what you're able to do in 4-6 weeks
  • @Paul, HR lags power, as you can see on the graph it took you almost the entire 4 min interval just to get HR to Z5 , I do not know your power zones or even if you are training with power but you were probably putting out Z5 watts , each successive interval had higher highs and higher lows on the HR graph... Like Al said even these will improve over time and you should log more HR time in Z5 but my guess is you got your Z5 time in power....

  • Isn't 110% not quite z5? I thought 120% was really zone 5
  • @Robert- It depends on who's Method of Zone system your looking at... Yes on the EN training zones they start Z5 at 120% but don't forget the EN zones have big gaps between them , how do you account for the watts in between ? I believe STRAVA and TR both start Zone 5 at 106% of FTP and it looks Training Peaks start Z5 around 110% although that could probably be changed in threshold settings and simply choosing a different method ..... I know for me personally I would consider Z4 95-105%.... Does it really matter? We soon learn real quick how much time we can spend at various watts and time frames above FTP .....
  • Thanks @Al - I'm anxious to see what the numbers look like in OS week 14.  Power progression has been near-linear through six weeks -- that's highly motivating; but I know the curve will start to flatten out.

  • @Tim, @Robert - thanks for the good insight.  I tried to hold the power number steady throughout each 4-minute interval.  Frankly I wasn't sure if that was the objective -- as opposed to crushing the power to get in z5 quickly and then hanging on in that zone for dear life as power drops off.

    TrainingPeaks shows a 5A and 5B zone on the HR by Zones graph.  Last week I did the 5-minute VO2 max test ... that pushed my HR into 5B for a few seconds.  It was supposed to be at 120% of estimated FTP.


  • Posted By Paul Curtin on 25 Dec 2015 08:57 AM 
    ...I tried to hold the power number steady throughout each 4-minute interval....


    This is the way to do it. If you are using power/watts, just pay attention to that metric. Ignore your HR. The fact that your HR is not getting into Z5 is a good sign, indicating your fitness has improved. Power/watts is a more direct measure of your work than HR, anyway. Also, for many of us, HR @ Z5 watts (while cycling) will often be lower than the is HR when running @ Z5 pace.

    If you tried to hold Z5 (110-130% of IF) watts for longer than, say, 4-5 minutes, your HR would eventually start to get higher. Probably just before you collapsed.

    Bottom line, when doing cycling intervals, if you have access to power, you can just ignore what your HR is. Coach Rich for years (until last year) trained purely by power on the bike, never even wearing an HR monitor.

  • Power it is, thank you Al. At home I have access to power and HR (CompuTrainer). On work trips it's impossible to find a good bike so that will still be HR-based.

    What about during races ... do you race solely by power or do you also use HR?
  • Aha! Imparting race execution knowledge is what we do best @ EN. Click on the "Resources" menu tab above, and navigate to Racing Member Central >> Race Execution Details >> Master Race Execution.

    The short answer to your question is, if you have power, that's your primary metric in a race. HR & Perceived exertion can be used as a cross check to that especially in the latter stages of a bike leg.
  • I agree with Tim's first post regarding the HR lag time. For me, it takes a long time to get my HR into the very top end and then it drops very quickly when I slow the power. For top end watts, I always ignore HR because there is such a lag. For hard, short intervals like 30/30s, my HR probably never gets to the top.
  • Okay, so the lag time seems normal - @Tom thanks for that validation. I have noticed that when I do all of the official EN warm-up (including time in z3), the initial lag is shorter.
  • Very good stuff out there @Al ... I hadn't explored that part of the vault yet ... thanks!
Sign In or Register to comment.