I'll skip all the other excuses and get to a new one. WU went fine, as I started the 5' VO2 I noticed a flicker on TR from my Wahoo Speed and Cadence sensor. I hung on for an average of 211. As I started the 20' I essentially lost the signal. After a slight adjustment to get the magnet closer I got started again and almost instantly had the spoke hit the sensor blowing into several pieces.
Knocked out the JOS baseline bike test this evening. I peaked last season with an FTP of 308 W, one month out from IMAZ and it's sad how quickly we can come down from those peaks. Today's testing results yielded a 20 minutes FTP of 273 W. For testing I use the 20 minute protocol, using the combo of: Trainer Road, Sufferfest's Rubber Glove and Wahoo Kickr. I choose this test for consistency, since I've used the same protocol for past 2 years.
@Scot said it best, the sign of a good bike test is when you approach emesis in the final 2 minutes for the 20 minutes test portion.
As an aside, I am hacking my bike set up this season, specifically using a mid-sole cleat placement. Google mid sole cleat and Joe Friel if your curious to know more. Today's test was done with mid-sole cleat placement on Sidi shoes I modified/drilled myself. I could have benefited from a better bike fit, the saddle angle felt off and I had some notable left hand numbness that became worse on the hardest parts of the test. Overall, I think this was a fairly accurate baseline. I'll be scheduling my fit later this week. Here is a link to my Strava upload of the test. I included it because it has picture of my modified shoes and cleat placement. And I couldn't figure ou how to place images on the forum. https://www.strava.com/activities/463284977
@Patrick Boyle - Please don't take what I am about to write as critical, but take it as the value of the team concept of identifying potential issues and helping out someone newer.
your wko doesn't sound like a valid test. Testing is a longer process than 8 minutes and is the most suffering you will do in an hour session. The old protocol, as the title of this thread states, was to do a warmup, then 2x20 minute intervals "like you had a gun to your head" separated by a 2 minute easy spin. The power of the 42 minute interval was your FTP. If you do your WKOs at the 221, you are likely not going to be pushing that hard.
specifically read the training with power E-book & the section on testing...
you also might find good threads in the power forum here on EN. Explore all of this, as this is the stuff that makes you faster, it is way more than just the training plan!
@ALL - great testing & mojo! That's what this is about, training individually, yet having comrades in arms around the country (and world) to leverage off of. All of this energy is making me even more pissed off about this bug I can't shake...
Enjoy the rest day(don't carb up!), looking forward to seeing good run tests tomorrow!
btw, if you haven't read the book "Iron War," Highly recommended that you do. Aside from telling a great sports story, the book does a great job of delving into the human need for self -validation & the suffering we will go through to get there. All of which we learn to turn into positive results in our chosen sport. A great read between workouts!
Scott - no worries - i'll take all the help i can get. The test i did was called the "8 Minute Test" from Trainer Road but the entire ride was an hour. It had two 8 minute sections that they called the test. I'm also convinced i had the trainer (new for me) set up with the mag set too easy. I plan on doing it again with a different setting to see if that changes anything. I linked it with my Strava account (pcboyle) - love to have you check it out and provide feedback.
This thread needs more estrogen!!! I did my test this morning. First trainer ride in probably 9 months and the first FTP interval of any kind in about 4 months. So, yeah, a little rough but I got it done.
FTP= 126
That's not a typo. And I'm proud to put it out there too. So if you are a little peep like me, don't be afraid of all the big numbers! You are in good company!
Way to go Nemo... The number's nothing... It's watching the effort during intervals over the next month with 'em... That's when everyone knows how big the heart is! Way to get it done!
The test i did was called the "8 Minute Test" from Trainer Road but the entire ride was an hour. It had two 8 minute sections that they called the test.
Patrick- that test in Trainer Road is great, but it gets at a slightly different outcome and purpose than the 20' test. TrainerRoad also has a 20' test that is much closer to the EN Test in both protocol and purpose/outcome. I'd suggest you use that one next time or use the EN Test that is also in TrainerRoad, you just have to get yourself added to the Endurance Nation group to see it (as well as all the OS workouts too!)
Oh- one more thing, be sure you have the trainer set to "slope" in Trainer Road and not "erg" for the FTP test. This is one workout where you want to be in control of how hard you go vs letting the trainer control the effort.
@Nemo - way to put it out there!! I totally agree... where are all the chica numbers??? I'm not testing this week due to slowly and gingerly testing out my lower back but I'm pretty sure I'll be good FTP company for you.
Look at how much harder you got in the 2nd 8 min interval. curve goes up! most people are dying or holding on for dear life in the last 4 minutes of an FTP test...
what trainer did you get? I see you wrote "mag" trainer... had one of those years ago. THE best choice is one electronically controlled. the best "dumb" trainer is the Cycleops Fluid series or Kurt Kinetic...
if you recently bought the Mag trainer and it isn't one of the above, you might want to look into a return or exchange...
check out www.dcrainmaker.com for his reviews on Drainers... (the correct way to say trainer in the bike threads for the remainder of this OS is DRAINER!)
No tests for me until the latter part of Feb, probably at the week 8 time frame. I've been following the Jan Int OS program for trainer rides since mid Dec, and am on week 4 now. I will slowly drift back to link up with those starting this week by mid-Feb, when I return from my second of two ski trips.
I've just been using my end-of year FTP as set in Trainer Road and on my Joule, linked to my KICKR. It seems to be stressing me just the right amount, looking at my resulting HR during intervals, and ability to keep up with the WKOs day-to-day. FWIW, my w/kg is about 3.1X at present, and might get up into 3.2X by the end of the OS.
Of equal import is what I'm watching while I pedal away: The Leftovers (S2 - aiming for the last episode today), Fargo (S1 Ep 4; S2 to follow), and Mr. Robot (gotta finish by 1-21, when it leaves the web).
Did the bike test late last night after work. Not too horrible for not having ridden the bike in a while. VO2 of 254 and FTP of 230. Lots of room for improvement. Used my fancy new trainer as well - really like the KICKR.
Hello JOSers. Great numbers being posted up this week. Unfortunately, I can still remember my test from 3 weeks ago. Very pukeworthy. I am currently in week 11 of the NOS, but will be following along in both groups until my OS is over at the end of the month. I will use this group as a landing place/home as I transition into different training blocks. There's a lot of mojo to be had in this group and I would like take part and add some of my own.
Confession: I did NOT test! Several reasons, but mostly because I had to get some swims in before my lesson tomorrow since last week was a total wash with company! I did get a 45 min ride in today and promise to test in the near future. The other reason is because I just got hooked up with Trainer Road and I also now have the Kickr and the power numbers on the Kickr are higher than the ones from my Power 2 Max so I'm not sure what to "aim" for. Also - the test on Trainer Road looks like an even number of Watts throughout the 20 minutes and I don't usually test that way. I start lower and end higher. My FTP last Feb. was 148; at the end of the summer it was 157. So, that would be around 180 Watts on the Kickr? I know I am not nearly the same bike condition as I was before IMCHOO, so I'm going to have to guess. I'll take any advice on testing with the Kickr and Trainer Road!!!
Confession: I did NOT test! Several reasons, but mostly because I had to get some swims in before my lesson tomorrow since last week was a total wash with company! I did get a 45 min ride in today and promise to test in the near future. The other reason is because I just got hooked up with Trainer Road and I also now have the Kickr and the power numbers on the Kickr are higher than the ones from my Power 2 Max so I'm not sure what to "aim" for. Also - the test on Trainer Road looks like an even number of Watts throughout the 20 minutes and I don't usually test that way. I start lower and end higher. My FTP last Feb. was 148; at the end of the summer it was 157. So, that would be around 180 Watts on the Kickr? I know I am not nearly the same bike condition as I was before IMCHOO, so I'm going to have to guess. I'll take any advice on testing with the Kickr and Trainer Road!!!
Carol. A few things for you with regards to testing and using your new Kickr with TrainerRoad.
First- when you test using TrainerRoad, turn the setting from Erg to Slope. Erg controls the watts/resistance for you, but with Slope you ride essentially just like a "dumb" trainer. The watts on the 20 minute interval in TR is then just a guide - so you will test just like you always have.
Second- Whenever you use TrainerRoad, it's helpful to do the "Spindown" towards the beginning of your ride to make sure the watts are correctly calibrated. Takes about 90 seconds- very simple and can be part of your warmup.
Third- I'm assuming you still have the Power2Max on your bike that you are riding on the trainer, correct? If so, my advice would be to do/record the test in TR, but use your bike computer/watch the watts on your Power2Max. That way you aren't guessing what the difference between the two will be. After that first test, you'll have your Kickr/TR FTP that you can use for the rest of the OS. FWIW- I find my TR/Powerbeam Pro FTP is just a little higher than my Powertap. But I use the Powertap number to record everything because that's the tool I use to log my data in Garmin Connect.
I did that or I should say tried that Trainerroad 2 x 8' FTP test once... That damn thing cracked me like an egg dropped from a second story window! EPIC FAIL.... Keep in mind that its only 16' of total work but TR takes 90% of the average power over those 2 intervals to estimate the FTP which means you must complete them well into your Zone 5 range .
I'll add a little estrogen to the group....just a very little since I am pretty old! I am brand new, just having finished my trial week last week. I tested last week and actually came up with my highest FTP so far at 206. No IM for me this year. I have 3 70.3s on my schedule to keep me busy!
I have been doing the Spindown every now and then - but not with every ride. I'll remember to do that now:-)
My Power2Max is not on my trainer (road bike). It's on my tri bike which is resting comfortably in the basement gym! That would be the easiest way to get my numbers close - but I'll just have to approximate what I think I can do on the Kickr and will have to adjust on the fly. I don't think it will be terribly off. I will try not to procrastinate too long:-) Thanks again.
Scott it's the Cycleops MAG. Here's a link to the site. http://cycleops.com/product/mag. But yeah - i was following the Trainer Road target power line and felt it was way too easy. But as it got close to the second 8 minute test the message on the screen said not to hold back - so i didnt. I'm going to fix the tension setting and do another test. I'll check out the test you did.
I'm signed up for the Raleigh 70.3 and without any hills to speak of in Savannah, GA - i really want to get my bike dialed in.
Adding just a bit more estrogen here! I have a kickr and use the perfpro software. With that test my FTP is 180 - I think it is similar to the TR 20 min test. I'm looking forward to bumping that up a bit with the JOS!
Comments
Well I have a lot of work to do......VO2 255, FTP 215....Down 20 watts from November test prior to knee issues, Only one thing to do, work works!
WU went fine, as I started the 5' VO2 I noticed a flicker on TR from my Wahoo Speed and Cadence sensor. I hung on for an average of 211. As I started the 20' I essentially lost the signal. After a slight adjustment to get the magnet closer I got started again and almost instantly had the spoke hit the sensor blowing into several pieces.
New one on order. Will retest next week.
@Scot said it best, the sign of a good bike test is when you approach emesis in the final 2 minutes for the 20 minutes test portion.
As an aside, I am hacking my bike set up this season, specifically using a mid-sole cleat placement. Google mid sole cleat and Joe Friel if your curious to know more. Today's test was done with mid-sole cleat placement on Sidi shoes I modified/drilled myself. I could have benefited from a better bike fit, the saddle angle felt off and I had some notable left hand numbness that became worse on the hardest parts of the test. Overall, I think this was a fairly accurate baseline. I'll be scheduling my fit later this week. Here is a link to my Strava upload of the test. I included it because it has picture of my modified shoes and cleat placement. And I couldn't figure ou how to place images on the forum. https://www.strava.com/activities/463284977
@Patrick Boyle - Please don't take what I am about to write as critical, but take it as the value of the team concept of identifying potential issues and helping out someone newer.
your wko doesn't sound like a valid test. Testing is a longer process than 8 minutes and is the most suffering you will do in an hour session. The old protocol, as the title of this thread states, was to do a warmup, then 2x20 minute intervals "like you had a gun to your head" separated by a 2 minute easy spin. The power of the 42 minute interval was your FTP. If you do your WKOs at the 221, you are likely not going to be pushing that hard.
best to read the Wiki - http://members.endurancenation.us/Resources/Wiki/tabid/91/topic/Biking/Default.aspx
specifically read the training with power E-book & the section on testing...
you also might find good threads in the power forum here on EN. Explore all of this, as this is the stuff that makes you faster, it is way more than just the training plan!
@ALL - great testing & mojo! That's what this is about, training individually, yet having comrades in arms around the country (and world) to leverage off of. All of this energy is making me even more pissed off about this bug I can't shake...Enjoy the rest day(don't carb up!), looking forward to seeing good run tests tomorrow!
btw, if you haven't read the book "Iron War," Highly recommended that you do. Aside from telling a great sports story, the book does a great job of delving into the human need for self -validation & the suffering we will go through to get there. All of which we learn to turn into positive results in our chosen sport. A great read between workouts!
Scott - no worries - i'll take all the help i can get. The test i did was called the "8 Minute Test" from Trainer Road but the entire ride was an hour. It had two 8 minute sections that they called the test. I'm also convinced i had the trainer (new for me) set up with the mag set too easy. I plan on doing it again with a different setting to see if that changes anything. I linked it with my Strava account (pcboyle) - love to have you check it out and provide feedback.
thanks.
FTP= 126
That's not a typo. And I'm proud to put it out there too. So if you are a little peep like me, don't be afraid of all the big numbers! You are in good company!
Patrick- that test in Trainer Road is great, but it gets at a slightly different outcome and purpose than the 20' test. TrainerRoad also has a 20' test that is much closer to the EN Test in both protocol and purpose/outcome. I'd suggest you use that one next time or use the EN Test that is also in TrainerRoad, you just have to get yourself added to the Endurance Nation group to see it (as well as all the OS workouts too!)
Oh- one more thing, be sure you have the trainer set to "slope" in Trainer Road and not "erg" for the FTP test. This is one workout where you want to be in control of how hard you go vs letting the trainer control the effort.
I always feel compelled to put watts/kg in parentheses after my low sounding FTP!
@ Patrick - Checked out your ride... https://www.strava.com/activities/463074906
Look at how much harder you got in the 2nd 8 min interval. curve goes up! most people are dying or holding on for dear life in the last 4 minutes of an FTP test...
what trainer did you get? I see you wrote "mag" trainer... had one of those years ago. THE best choice is one electronically controlled. the best "dumb" trainer is the Cycleops Fluid series or Kurt Kinetic...here is my 2x20 test from a few weeks ago..
best test I ever did. I am willing to bet that i left 1-2 watts on the table. https://www.strava.com/activities/444813747
if you recently bought the Mag trainer and it isn't one of the above, you might want to look into a return or exchange...
check out www.dcrainmaker.com for his reviews on Drainers... (the correct way to say trainer in the bike threads for the remainder of this OS is DRAINER!)
No tests for me until the latter part of Feb, probably at the week 8 time frame. I've been following the Jan Int OS program for trainer rides since mid Dec, and am on week 4 now. I will slowly drift back to link up with those starting this week by mid-Feb, when I return from my second of two ski trips.
I've just been using my end-of year FTP as set in Trainer Road and on my Joule, linked to my KICKR. It seems to be stressing me just the right amount, looking at my resulting HR during intervals, and ability to keep up with the WKOs day-to-day. FWIW, my w/kg is about 3.1X at present, and might get up into 3.2X by the end of the OS.
Of equal import is what I'm watching while I pedal away: The Leftovers (S2 - aiming for the last episode today), Fargo (S1 Ep 4; S2 to follow), and Mr. Robot (gotta finish by 1-21, when it leaves the web).
VO2/FTP numbers so far:
wk 1 292/234
wk 8 305/261
SS Update: 2X15s this morning (not fun) ~100+ TSS https://www.strava.com/activities/463536880
Watching all the testing going on in here is motivating yet exhausting, if that makes any sense at all!
FWIW - my w/kg is ~3.8 as tested about 4 weeks ago......need to find 4.0+ by the end of this cycle.......
Smart peeps talking in terms of w/kg as a baseline to improve upon......follow their leads.
Good luck with the vDOT testing all!
SS
Carol. A few things for you with regards to testing and using your new Kickr with TrainerRoad.
First- when you test using TrainerRoad, turn the setting from Erg to Slope. Erg controls the watts/resistance for you, but with Slope you ride essentially just like a "dumb" trainer. The watts on the 20 minute interval in TR is then just a guide - so you will test just like you always have.
Second- Whenever you use TrainerRoad, it's helpful to do the "Spindown" towards the beginning of your ride to make sure the watts are correctly calibrated. Takes about 90 seconds- very simple and can be part of your warmup.
Third- I'm assuming you still have the Power2Max on your bike that you are riding on the trainer, correct? If so, my advice would be to do/record the test in TR, but use your bike computer/watch the watts on your Power2Max. That way you aren't guessing what the difference between the two will be. After that first test, you'll have your Kickr/TR FTP that you can use for the rest of the OS. FWIW- I find my TR/Powerbeam Pro FTP is just a little higher than my Powertap. But I use the Powertap number to record everything because that's the tool I use to log my data in Garmin Connect.
Hope that helps!
@Larry & AL T - feeling like i should've bought a kickr instead of my powerbeam :-(
I did that or I should say tried that Trainerroad 2 x 8' FTP test once... That damn thing cracked me like an egg dropped from a second story window! EPIC FAIL.... Keep in mind that its only 16' of total work but TR takes 90% of the average power over those 2 intervals to estimate the FTP which means you must complete them well into your Zone 5 range .
I'll add a little estrogen to the group....just a very little since I am pretty old! I am brand new, just having finished my trial week last week. I tested last week and actually came up with my highest FTP so far at 206. No IM for me this year. I have 3 70.3s on my schedule to keep me busy!
Thanks Nemo! Great info about the Slope vs. Erg.
I have been doing the Spindown every now and then - but not with every ride. I'll remember to do that now:-)
My Power2Max is not on my trainer (road bike). It's on my tri bike which is resting comfortably in the basement gym! That would be the easiest way to get my numbers close - but I'll just have to approximate what I think I can do on the Kickr and will have to adjust on the fly. I don't think it will be terribly off. I will try not to procrastinate too long:-) Thanks again.
Scott it's the Cycleops MAG. Here's a link to the site. http://cycleops.com/product/mag. But yeah - i was following the Trainer Road target power line and felt it was way too easy. But as it got close to the second 8 minute test the message on the screen said not to hold back - so i didnt. I'm going to fix the tension setting and do another test. I'll check out the test you did.
I'm signed up for the Raleigh 70.3 and without any hills to speak of in Savannah, GA - i really want to get my bike dialed in.
thanks.
pb
@larry, that would be a very expensive drive across town...