Power/ cadence as I tire during workouts

Ralph Moore

So,  During my first OS, I found that I tended to default to a lower cadence to hit my power goals during intervals.  That it, I would select a higher gear and crank harder on the downstroke.  As I have consciously tried to work on increasing my cadence to 90 ish and work on smoothing my pedal stroke, I have found that I can generate the same power with a smoother pedal stroke but as I tire, I tend to revert to a lower cadence (even in the same gear) and my power actually tends to go up over the last portion of the interval but it also fluctuates much more on each pedal stroke as I push harder on the downstroke.

The question is : is this normal? and if so, can improve it further by continue to work on higher cadence?  Are there special workouts to use to increase the ability to maintain a higher cadence?

Kane Murphy

Ralph, You exactly described my riding style as well, so I think it's perfectly normal. Up until a few week ago I have never given any thought to it or worried much about it. I know we don't have recovery days on the bike built into the OS training plans, but I find recovery type rides the best time for me to work on cadence or form drills. Trying to hit X power for Y number of minutes tends to take all of my focus. I see you are on Trainer Road - I just found a couple of workouts such as West Vidette, which while lower intensity are good times to focus on form. Sometimes I follow the on screen instructions, sometimes I just try for 100prm the whole workout. I also enjoy the Sufferfest Elements of Style video, it's a good one. Rollers are another good tool if you want to focus on smooth pedaling.
I'll be following along to see what ideas others may have to add.

Swanie

It may be 'normal' but that doesn't mean that is best practice. The smoother you can spin, even on the high power reps the better. What I find is when the fatigue kicks in, I concentrate on taking out the rocking or pumping and smooth every thing out. I find that I actually have lower RPE when I accomplish this.

Shaughn Simmons

You should always work to improve your efficiency in your stroke.  We can all make improvements there.

That said, cadence tends to be a individual thing.  Look at the pros and you will see anywhere between 80 - 90+ for their preferences.

I personally seem to like the low to mid 80s for whatever reason.  Find your niche, focus on hitting your power numbers and keep working to make your stroke ever efficient.

SS

William Jenks

I agree that this is pretty normal. I typically spin a lot faster outside than inside. Can't really put a finger on why.

I do think that it's a bit of a crutch to go too low on your cadence indoors, though...sort of like swimming with paddles all the time. Even though I definitely average lower inside than outside, I do try to ensure that I mix it up. I also think you can play a bit when you're getting very tired in certain intervals by changing the gear ratio just to engage slightly different muscle fibers.

Ralph Moore

I brought this up because when I started with EN 3 years ago (wow) I was a low cadence kind of guy.  To the extent that some more experienced members of the team suggested that I work on increasing my cadence.  I have done so and have noticed that it is much easier but when I get tired,my form starts to go and I tend to revert.  From the discussion, I am going to gather that the solution is to keep working on maintaining my cadence for the entire interval but When I start trying to squeeze the last few watts out on that long interval or FTP test is when it becomes most noticeable.  Thanks for the input team.

tim cronk

Ralph, My view of the cadence debate. The idea in racing is to go from point A to point B as fast as possible, the idea in training is to maximize the work on that structural interval or test. I don't particularly care what my cadence is when trying to accomplish either of those. However, I'm a firm believer in working on any weakness or maybe more appropriately working different systems , mean I think its a good idea to do cadence work outside of our normal range. I used to be quite a spinner in the 90's and over the last few years as I got faster my cadence just kept dropping. Going over 4 of my best rides, 2 training and 2 races, of last year I would call my sweet spot between 75-88 , yes that is a big range , I had 2 at 75, 1 at 84 , and 1 at 88.... So in my mind , I would like to do some structured work above and below that range say 90-100 and 60-70 to hit some systems I normally do not cover. @ IMAZ I heard Andrew Starkowicz (not really a fan but he can bike :-)) talking to an AG'er saying you must be able to hit your power at a wide range of cadence's... There is also lots of people that believe in the low cadence performance like Brett Sutton in this article. http://trisutto.com/come-in-spinner-the-bike-cadence-debate/
In general it is believed that higher RPM's works more cardio, and lower RPM's is more muscle or strength. I often chuckle at myself when trying to maintain a certain power in an interval and the shifting begins looking for that "easier" gear that doesnt exist! Bottomline, go ahead and work those NOT normal ranges of cadence's in training to cover weakness's or different systems, but don't worry about them when racing or trying to hit those specific intervals like an FTP test.

Ralph Moore

Tim - Thanks, that is helpful. Interestingly, I did Sufferfest "a very dark place" for the Thursday workout (since it has the 5 VO2 intervals and the video keeps me entertained) and I noticed that the intervals all call for differing cadence at VO2 power which is A. Hard and B. helps work on varying cadence while holding power. I think I will do that one more often and see if it helps.

William Jenks

Tim - I like that illustration of HR vs strength. It's not perfect, but there's really some truth to it.

I too sometimes search for that "easier" gear. Sometimes it's there, and sometimes not. :-)