improving run cadence
I've never known/measured my run cadence until recently (Garmin 920/foot pod).
I've only used my 920 outside and after a few runs (long run, moderate distance/tempo) I keep coming up with 157 average. 180 seems a LONG way off.
I plan to start using my foot pod indoors on the TM where I do all my speed work (I'll be interested to see how much faster my cadence is at Z4).
My question for all you smart runners: what's the best way to increase run cadence (bio: age 61, current VDOT 46, no too many injuries)?
Thanks!
I've only used my 920 outside and after a few runs (long run, moderate distance/tempo) I keep coming up with 157 average. 180 seems a LONG way off.
I plan to start using my foot pod indoors on the TM where I do all my speed work (I'll be interested to see how much faster my cadence is at Z4).
My question for all you smart runners: what's the best way to increase run cadence (bio: age 61, current VDOT 46, no too many injuries)?
Thanks!
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I went through this exercise years and years ago, and it fundamentally changed my running form. Notes:
Finally be patient with these running form changes, maybe tracking how much time per run you're thinking like ^this^ vs running with your normal form. It will come but you need to be patient. It took me about 3-4mo to make these changes back in '00 but they were very good improvements for me to make. Good luck!
I avg 200 strides on almost every run since a year, no injury but keeps on getting faster.
I sometime wonder if I should worry or change anything or just keep going
Echo what Rich said. I also find value in doing some track work to extend the strides. Be careful of pace and intensity and ALWAYS do a quality warm up (for me it depends on how cold it is outside). I've come to the point that when I am on a regular cycle of track work, that I really look forward to that workout, learning to pace and hitting my target numbers.
Hey David nice thread to bring up for some people knee deep in an OS. Rich's advice is pretty bang on in a lot of respects. Believe it or not, most running problems can be fixed by changing just one thing about your stride and that's your cadence.
My goal when running is nailing 90/180 SPM, you’re at way less than that. And although 180 is a magic number you don't need to hit it exaclty,but a great place to start. I have read a gazillion studies on stride/cadence/form and what I have gleaned and believe in is this. "Less impact, less shock, good running economy, and reduced injuries over time.(nutshell).
They say that running less than 170 per minute creates an atmosphere of overstriding(not best form) increases rate of injuries/heel striking(braking).
Taking more than 170 steps per minute makes it "nearly impossible" but anything is possible
to commit the worst form mistake a runner can make. So if cadence is increased to 170-180 you will reduce that thing called over-striding and hard heel-striking. Your foot also has a more natural tendency to come down under your hips and land underneath your body’s center of mass instead of in front of you, which should be everyone's goal.
Enough of that back to your ???? "How do I increase my cadence" Rich again hit's it. start counting as you go running, count the number of steps you take in 6 sec(9spm)10sec(15spm)15sec(23spm)30sec(45spm)60secs(90spm). If you are still not hitting these types of numbers time to really focus and it will seem different at first start but "take more steps".
How do I do it. On the Tready I count a quick 6 sec(9SPM) after I feel I am warmed up. Once I start my work or change my pace on the TM I again do a 6 sec count. CD same thing 6 sec.
How do I do it Outside. WU then I start A 30 sec count, then over the run I do random counts.
What I have found over time my stride and cadence automatically adjust to between 178 - 184 SPM depending on my pace, my brain has adapted to recognize the changes.
Yes it will feel weird or different at first and it’s supposed to. If you’ve run with a slower cadence (or a longer stride), then it’s going to feel unnatural at first. You’re using slightly different muscle groups because your stride is shorter, not to mention disrupting the stride your brain has gotten used to for all these years, give it time and start counting just like in swimming drills count. If you can start a habit of spending a minute out of every five minutes paying attention to it over time, your brain will adjust, and you’ll be a more efficient runner and reap all the positive rewards as a result. Good luck and stay focused. Hope this was of some help to you. If you have a treadmill at home get someone to video you soon and then again after 2 weeks or more to see if you have any form changes. I have videoed my form, just my feet, just upper body, etc.
Penny for your thought's, my 2 cents worth, cheers !
As a side right now I am concentrating on my hips to "glute goose" or "hip flick" with every stride. Others call it running "from the butt." When it clicks, you can feel the glutes pulling your thigh and knee back while your hips remain stable and connected, channeling that energy of the leg drive into forward motion.Simply put I trying to activate more of my gluts so I am not overusing/tiring my hamstrings.
I'm among the converted. After looking at ways I could improve over last season, run durability/form/cadence was in the top five. Santa must have heard me since I received a Garmin foot pod for Christmas (thank you, Santa!) and it's been nothing short of a revelation for me.
Given that I stand 6'2, my natural run cadence settled around the 160 mark, give or take. With the foot pod, I started paying attention to cadence and which resulted in my cadence slowly started floating up over the course of the OS. I have to admit, when I first started upping the cadence, I felt ridiculous; I had no idea how I was going to get anywhere taking (what felt like) such tiny steps!! It didn't happen overnight, but initially I set cadence goals for myself during the mile repeats, and I think that helped drive the change during the other runs. Now I naturally tend to gravitate towards the 180-190 mark without even thinking about it, and I'm still seeing real gains in running performance and (what feels like) significantly less stress on my legs. That's an understatement. I actually feel as though it's revolutionized my running and helped me break through a plateau. And that's only with the occasional glance at the cadence data field while I'm running.
It's my n=1, and it may have more to do with how much room I had for improvement in the run, but it made a huge difference for me.
Best of luck!
For long runs I'll watch it as an indicator of fatigue. My cadence drops as I get tired, zone out and lazy.
BTW, saw an article a while ago that stated 90/180 wasn't the ideal number, any number at or higher than that was good.
One thing I always state (and forgot to mention) is that there is an incorrect assumption out there that your cadence is constant with pace. That's not true. As with everything, speed = cadence x distance per step. When you increase speed, it turns out that MOST of the difference is in distance per step, but not all of it. You WILL have slightly lower cadence at slower run paces.
I once went to the trouble of plotting many thousand data points collected from my Garmin and footpod; plotting speed vs cadence, the relationship is linear until (on the slow side) there is a break where your stride changes. (Obviously we don't walk at the 90 type cadence) Now just because it's true for me doesn't mean it's true for everyone....but I'll guarantee it's true for the vast majority.
William,
You're right. I have had some time now with my new foot pod to take some notes:for the fast stuff I'm at 175-180, however I fall to 160 for the slower,long runs (9-9:30 pace) climbing to 170s running up hills.
On my long runs when I try to push my cadence up toward 170 it seems like there is an energy cost (admittedly I'm new at this endeavor).
It's hard for me at this point to believe that pushing my cadence up to 175-180 for the long slower stuff won't create some inefficiency (if it matters any I'm 6'3" and haven't struggled with too many injuries). That said even at 61 years old I want to believe I can improve.
It's easy to understand how increasing cadence will help prevent injury but can I expect that it will increase efficiency at ALL paces? Have you used a tempo trainer in your early efforts to increase run cadence at all paces?
Dave
It's one of those things that I know I need to work on, have been told how I'll improve, but there is no easy/clear way to do it! Well, I guess you've covered the way to do it, I've just not fully implemented it. Think I'm gonna work out a goal and get stepping!
Confused and new to all these running metrics. I need to re-listen to the marathon podcast by Coach P., because I *thought* it said work toward a 135 cadence, though everything in here is saying 170/180. In the run I did yesterday, I was at an average of 173 over 6 miles (I'm 5'2"), so based on this thread, I'm guessing that my cadence is close to where it needs to be(?) and that what I need to be working on in the off season is my stride length? And if so, what's the best way to work on that?
Second, I think I am seeing a wee bit of improvement. It's not as "hard" as it was (still hard, just not quite as hard) and I actually felt my glutes engaging in my 70' minute run Sunday. That is a big deal for me!
Third...when I focus on cadence on the tread mill my paces per my foot pod are WAY faster than the 10 mm pace I have the mill set to. I've always been off a bit, but should I adjust it? Everything is getting pushed to garmin connect, then training peaks. I have to manually adjust which is kind of a pain since I do some of my shorty short runs on the mill for ease and less laundry.
Trish, I would expect it to feel a bit awkward at first. It should get easier an improve your efficiency over time. Just focus on staying relaxed as much as you can.
On the foot pod vs. treadmill pace, keep in mind that foot pods typically need some calibration to be accurate. And treadmills aren't necessarily right on either. Plus the foot pod calibration can vary based on how fast you are going! There is a calibration factor on the Garmin that you can adjust if you are finding it far off. I would just get it reasonably close at your typical pace and not worry about it.
It probably would be helpful to get outside to work on strides if you can manage it. They're ideally run at z4-z5 pace for 20-30", with very easy recoveries between. That can be hard to execute on a treadmill given the time to spin up and down.
The ideal cadence will vary depending on the runner and running style. It's typically 180+ but can be a little lower. I would keep including strides in easy runs since they're good for efficiency even when you get to a good cadence. Stride length will work itself out as you do your tempo runs and speedwork; any gains that aren't coming from cadence will come from a longer stride. If you want to work on your power / stride length you might also look at hill repeats, particularly with bounding.
A few observations from my experience which may be helpful
Shoes affect cadence for me. The more cushioned the shoe , the lower the cadence. I'm hopeless in Hokas and stopped wearing them.
My natural cadence is about 86-88 steps per leg/ minute (172-176 on my garmin). However the first 1-2k of a run is usually a bit lower - 166-170 - and I don't fret about it. It seems to come up by itself as I get warmed up and not forcing it seems to be better.
Every once in a while I work on cadence by doing 90sec-120sec Z2 (EZ-ish) efforts where all I think about is turnover and cadence.
During intervals and 5k road races, my cadence increases to 190-200 steps /minute (in retrospect). I don't look at my cadence during these efforts except to think 'quick light steps'. I try to imaging I'm running like Alistair Brownlee.
I do pay close attention to cadence reported on my watch in long course triathlon and will make a conscious effort to stay >170 steps/minute ASAP after T2 and when I'm feeling tired
My favorite screen on the garmin 920 has 3 fields- HR big at the top, cadence and pace smaller at the bottom.
I used to use the garmin metronome set at 180 for all training runs- but have since turned off this feature.
I do strides in most short runs (I am trying to run 6 days a week, all ez pace and focus a LOT on cadence before starting OS most likely in January!) Just working the Run durability plan with an extra 2-3 mile run just to keep my frequency up. I did NOT stay consistent last fall and I WON'T put myself in that position this year....big fish to fry over the next couple years and that will take consistent effort on my part. As an adult onset runner/athlete, I can't pull off a good race result with out the solid work to back it up. So, for now, I run!
I own my treadmill and it seems harder than the ones I used to run on at my gym, but it is only a year old and was calibrated when I bought it. I will calibrate my foot pod to my pace on it just to keep it simple.