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FTP Guidance

thekidduxcthekidduxc
in General Training Discussions

Recently participated in a 48KM cycle race. Performed a lot of work over 70'. My NP was 287 over the 70' with a VI of 1.05.

Am I safe to use 287 as my FTP?

Here is my ride's file via TP

http://tpks.ws/OQItU

Comments

  • tim cronktim cronk
    I would say YES :-)
  • Robert SaboRobert Sabo
    I would also say yes. You will test your chosen %FTP for IM race during your Race Rehearsals to make sure you will ultimately be using your 5 hour power. But 287W, your 1 hour power, is appropriate to base your training zones now.
  • William JenksWilliam Jenks
    The question is not whether 287 is an appropriate starting FTP for winter work, but whether it's even a little low, compared to what your colleagues at similar strength would be.
  • Shaughn SimmonsShaughn Simmons

    William is correct.  FTP is the max NP you can hold for 60'.  We normally estimate that with a variety of tests like 5/20, 2/20, etc.  The fact that you held 287 NP for 70 minutes suggest  that, with a gun to your head, you could hold ~290 - 295 for 60'.

    At a mim, I would slot 290 for the FTP and even push that to 291 - 292.

    Incredible job holding that intensity for 70' man!  Nice work!

    SS

  • thekidduxcthekidduxc
    Thx guys. I was happy with the effort. Was the result of the OS work.

    Things did not start off well before the race even began. I started in one of the faster groups (handicapped pursuit race) and there were a few guys from Belgium in the group. I just happened to wear my Philippe Gilbert (my favorite cyclist) BMC Belgium National Champ Kit (EN cycling and tri suit have been ordered and will be here for next season). And these Belgians were just giving it to me. "Boys - we get to ride with Gilbert today.... So nice of him to grace us with his presence... Blah blah blah". So it was a good motivator to put in a lot of solid pulls up front and to earn some respect.
  • morpheusmorpheus
    I'm with those Belgians...I can't believe you wore that to a race....smh! image

    HUGE numbers, tho, so you def get a pass on it!
  • Gordon CherwoniakGordon Cherwoniak

    I'd agree on the FTP comments about being above the 287 mark.   

    Good for you living up to the jersey.  For me I'd have to wear a Homer Simpson Jersey at this point its all I could live up to.

  • William JenksWilliam Jenks
    Shaughn expressed what I intentionally withheld from saying. There are actually a few different definitions of what the FTP really is or how it's derived. They are actually quite different in origin, but the irony is that they all converge at what amounts to the simplest operational definition, which is (as Shaughn says) the 60 minute best NP...sometimes called CP60.

    The irony is that almost none of us actually do a CP60 test because we don't have the testicular fortitude to do that repeatedly. :-) The 5'/20' test that we do is supposed to closely approximate the result of that test, after multiplying the 20 minute NP by 0.95.
  • tim cronktim cronk
    The other half of my 2cents.... The only real time frame for a 1hour threshold power is 60minutes.... Anything less is well less and anything more is well more.... So yes if you go longer than 60 min then its likely low and if you go less than 60 its likely high... We are getting into semantics here and some percentage estimates will work for one and not someone else... While I have always found a 60 NP session of anykind (IOW high VI) pretty darn accurate for 1 hour power, my thoughts on this TT ride and following discussion is that it was indeed a high VI ride for a TT , I thought I would offer up this definition that I interpret as a true FTP description and some comments about it that I got off http://alex-cycle.blogspot.com/2008/05/the-seven-deadly-sins.html which is an awesome sight. "FTP is the highest power that a rider can maintain in a quasi-steady state without fatiguing for approximately 1 hour. When power exceeds FTP, fatigue will occur much sooner, whereas power just below FTP can be maintained considerably longer". The key to me being quasi-steady state .

    I stand by my first half of the 2 cents and say yes that 70 min TT is good for FTP #'s .... It could be more or it could be less... If it is , its NOT very much ! BAMF ride and #'s.... The truth will always come out in a 2 x 20' or anything close....

    FWIW - I have found STRAVA FTP estimator to be very accurate.... I recently did a 4 x 10' (2') on TR , where the notes said you could use this ride as an FTP test just use the average of the 4 intervals... They came in at 222 average , I knew this was high so built a 46' interval of the 4 x 10' with the 3- 2' rests included and came up with 214.... Set my FTP then looked it up on STRAVA and STRAVA gave me a new estimate of 213... Been following the STRAVA estimates for over a year and they are always right on what I think they should be.
  • thekidduxcthekidduxc
    I'm going to leave my FTP at 287 now and see how it works for my next 4/5 hour rides. At this point I am more concerned about 5 hour power as I am in RP for IMSA in April. I would prefer to be conservative with my FTP assessment at this point in my season. With that being said, I have another cycling event this weekend which I will use to test/confirm that new FTP. This ride will be a 49KM team time trail (~74'). (I will add 180' @ IF .70 onto the ride at the end to get the time in the saddle). So I will see if I can add multiple points which coincide with that CP60 ride @ 287NP.

    @ Tim - The 70' effort was a group ride (18 riders) in an Australian Pursuit (handicapped) race. So wasn't exactly a TT. I executed this race as an FTP workout and did not intend it as an FTP test. As a result I spent as much time up front pulling as my intent was not driven vis-a-vis results/the podium. So that explains the 1.05 VI which makes sense for a group ride

    Also -incredible blog. Saved it as I will include it in my daily/weekly procrastination reads!

  • tim cronktim cronk
    @David, Curious what STRAVA has your FTP estimate at?
  • thekidduxcthekidduxc
    @ Tim, Strava has me at 280 for my FTP estimate. 280 seems more realistic for me. 287 seems like a stretch. TTT was cancelled today due to fog so I didn't get a chance to confirm my FTP over another 70' ride. I have a 16KM TT (solo) on Monday. Will use that as my FTP workout and see what comes of it.

    I really appreciate everyone's comments.
  • tim cronktim cronk
    David at 280-290 a mere 7 watts could be the difference of 30 min more sleep or an extra cup of coffee... pretty dang accurate!
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