SS - I've bought a pair of Roka swim shorts about a year ago. Very good for guys like me who have "heavy" legs that drag through the pool. I feel a bit like I'm cheating when I wear them, but 90% of the races I've done are wetsuit legal, where I'm significantly faster. So....they are a great tool for me and I like them very much! Also great for when the local lakes near get too warm for wetsuit in July-Aug and I'm doing OWS training.
I got in a quality 3x1 mile run today at the track. 8 miles total and was able to hit my numbers ok, even in the wind. I'm curious to see how I hold up after a week or 2 of GF. It's a bit more taxing than the OS plan. Great to see everyone's progress here - very inspirational!
@BM, agree, you're most likely racing with a wetsuit.........sim shorts are not cheating, they are getting you closer to actual race conditions and allow you to kick better than a pool buoy any day!
TSB thoughts:
1) First I work hard to make sure I am using current, accurate baselines for my S/B/R. Meaning, when I do the test, I usually do either the 2X20' or the 5/20' If I do the 5/20', I make sure I do the 5' ALL OUT so that I get an accurate 20' spread. Leaving the 5' test out will overstate your FTP results and your 20'.
If I use sim shorts in the water, I make sure I perform my 1,000 yd TT with the sim shorts on.......etc., etc.
2) TSB, TSS are just numbers, guides, and should be used in conjunction with listening to your body and how you feel. How much work stress, family stress, lack of sleep and other things are not represented in those numbers? Be smart about what you read and don't read into them.
3) All that said, personally I drive my TSB to -20 or -22 for 2 - 4 weeks at a time, then I come off of that load and I let my TSB rise to 20+ for a week. No gray area, its all or nothing. When I start seeing numbers of -25 and -30 and my eyes begin to feel like they are sunk into the back of my head, I eliminate any HTFU type of thinking and I start really listening/observing.....
Again, these are guidelines and my personal opinions.....hope these thoughts are helpful for some
@Todd - rest, and eat. I'm sure there's an article somewhere that says eating bacon helps reduce TSB ;-)
I've been able to maintain steady training with TSB trending between -10 and -18, but only for 2 or 3 weeks. I like SS's notion of letting TSB trend positive before hitting it hard again.
But the numbers should be a secondary measure. Listen to your body first and foremost.
...I'm trying to learn the charts in Training Peaks and my current TSB is -30.8. My understanding is you want this number slightly negative or slightly positive? Is this correct?...
I've discovered there is no hard and fast rule for what the TSB "should" be. At least for me. As long as I don't make any sudden increases in my Acute Training Load, I can work into the -30's with no problem - even get into -40/50/60 after a long spell of slowly ramping up training towards an Ironman. But if I try to jump in a few days from, say, zero to -20, I might find myself needing to take an unscheduled day off. It's really best IMO to use multiple metrics to decide if you are ramping up too fast, or flirting with over-training. EG: general overall tiredness, fatigue, aches, pains, etc; mood - grumpy = bad; sleep - difficulty, or needing more than usual; difficulty maintaining weight; rising resting heart rate; etc. Then correlate all that with what you see on the Performance Management Chart. Eventually, over the course of several training cycles, you will learn what does and doesn't work for you.
All that said, during a program like the GF, with a lot of high intensity work, I've found staying within the -teens works best, and flitting down to -20s once a week after a long/hard Saturday. Always keep an eye on those downstream workouts. The "RAMP" - basically the rate of rise (or more precisely, fall) of the CTL is a key number - how fast are you putting that increased load into your system?
Glad to see this thread get active! Two weeks left for me before moving to HIM training.
I'll weigh in on the TSB discussion. I usually start feeling crappy when I'm at -30 for 2 or more days. After a long weekend, I'm OK at -30 to -40 for Monday, but any longer than that, I'm like everyone else and want to be in the -20 range. After a race taper, I usually am about +20 or so. However, more important than anything, as several have said, is how I feel on any given day. For instance, my TSB didn't know that Sunday night I only slept 3 hours, worked for about 6 hours, then drove 6 hours; I certainly wasn't going to run after that, regardless of TSB (but it was -40 anyway...).
Did most of the IMoo course today as my Thursday long run (traveling for work; is it sad I miss my trainer and SCY pool?) - https://www.strava.com/activities/524242576 . I plan on doing the Tuesday 3 x 1, 2 x 1/2 WKO on the TM at the hotel either tomorrow night or Thursday morning.
Generally on the TSB train of thought, curious what people are doing in terms of actual days off during the GF plan, given high intensity and rare scheduled full days off. Are folks taking one day off per week, one day off per every two weeks, doing every workout as scheduled like a beast? So far I'm at about 1 day off per two weeks and that seems to be working to keep my fatigue level in a good spot, though I'm mildly injured with peroneal tendonitis so my run intensity is not there (having to sub some runs with elliptical workouts and cut others short).
@Al- thanks for the more detailed response about your experience with TSB, it was helpful!
Happy training all! Traveling for work= finding fun pools in new locations.
Left foot pain has kept me out of running this past week. Podiatrist appointment yesterday ruled out all but a stress fracture. So stress fracture of the 4th metatarsal it is. Since there was no swelling or continued pain he recommended cutting weekly mileage by half and to slow down the pace. Better news than I expected.
Fatigue from last weekend's wko's has carried on through this week in the form of laziness and lack of motivation to train. TSB number is back down to the -teens and life is starting to feel better.
@Al - thanks for sharing your detailed experience training fatigue. Definitely put things into perspective.
Time to improvise and adjust for me. Out last weekend for SAU's with vacation time in Tucson. Ran a lot but was off the bike/swim for a week.
Now that I'm back I find that my trusty 2010 Cervelo P2 has a frame crack. Working with a couple of LBS here to get the frame warranty claim submitted. So I'll be on my road bike for a while (2008 Cervelo RS). The first IM plan race is a HIM in June so I have some time if we can get the frame matter turned around in a few weeks...we shall see.
Getting creative getting the wko's in, as the early am wake ups are still not happening.
Put in a twofer yesterday. Part 1 - Gym "bike" 7x1'(1") @ 1.20 15'@ .80 13'@ .75
Part 2 - Late PM trainer 20' - w/u 65'@ .85
I'll have a heavy bike focus this next week. Our family vacation to FL starts on 4/6. Not sure if I will be able to work in any bike work for two weeks. Since I can't run much, I'll have to figure something out.
Afternoon run today for 3 miles. After two weeks rest, no foot pain.
Hello Francis - I think that's a very impressive result. A 3-watt drop is rather insignificant as there are so many variables that influence power on any given day. Being even sightly under-hydrated (say you drank one less cup of water) could easily account for that difference.
The bigger factor is likely the accumulated fatigue from the GF's combination of high volume and high intensity. One day of rest wasn't enough to get your strongest test result. A full taper would give you a much higher FTP test result, but clearly that's not the main goal.
You'll do another FTP test on the HIM program. Keep the same protocol going into it - I bet you'll see an increase simply from being used to testing with residual fatigue.
And by the way, 3.95 w/kg is an outstanding number for this point in the season!
I've delayed yesterday's bike FTP test (hamstring strain) but went did my 1000yrd TT swim this morning. My time was 19:08, compared to 19:19 on February 22nd. I'm still slow, but I'm improving.
Was able to cut 16 seconds on my last test at the beginning of the GF, really happy with results and I am also happy how I paced the test, all splits are going down.
Two weeks post stress fracture, I put in 3.5 miles Z1 pacing, with no foot pain. So far so good.
Later that night, I squeezed in an hour on the trainer last night, finishing up around 11pm. I just started re-incorporating intervals, vo2 set done earlier this week. Last night I was going to try for 8' of ftp work and see how the body respond. Here's what transpired:
25'@ 1.00 11'@ .85 I wanted to keep going on the ftp set, but calf cramping shut that down.
Comments
I got in a quality 3x1 mile run today at the track. 8 miles total and was able to hit my numbers ok, even in the wind. I'm curious to see how I hold up after a week or 2 of GF. It's a bit more taxing than the OS plan. Great to see everyone's progress here - very inspirational!
@BM, agree, you're most likely racing with a wetsuit.........sim shorts are not cheating, they are getting you closer to actual race conditions and allow you to kick better than a pool buoy any day!
TSB thoughts:
1) First I work hard to make sure I am using current, accurate baselines for my S/B/R. Meaning, when I do the test, I usually do either the 2X20' or the 5/20' If I do the 5/20', I make sure I do the 5' ALL OUT so that I get an accurate 20' spread. Leaving the 5' test out will overstate your FTP results and your 20'.
If I use sim shorts in the water, I make sure I perform my 1,000 yd TT with the sim shorts on.......etc., etc.
2) TSB, TSS are just numbers, guides, and should be used in conjunction with listening to your body and how you feel. How much work stress, family stress, lack of sleep and other things are not represented in those numbers? Be smart about what you read and don't read into them.
3) All that said, personally I drive my TSB to -20 or -22 for 2 - 4 weeks at a time, then I come off of that load and I let my TSB rise to 20+ for a week. No gray area, its all or nothing. When I start seeing numbers of -25 and -30 and my eyes begin to feel like they are sunk into the back of my head, I eliminate any HTFU type of thinking and I start really listening/observing.....
Again, these are guidelines and my personal opinions.....hope these thoughts are helpful for some
Lunch hour Z4 run interval work complete in 22 mph winds: https://www.strava.com/activities/523851991
Need a nap!
SS
I've been able to maintain steady training with TSB trending between -10 and -18, but only for 2 or 3 weeks. I like SS's notion of letting TSB trend positive before hitting it hard again.
But the numbers should be a secondary measure. Listen to your body first and foremost.
https://www.strava.com/activities/524270785
I've discovered there is no hard and fast rule for what the TSB "should" be. At least for me. As long as I don't make any sudden increases in my Acute Training Load, I can work into the -30's with no problem - even get into -40/50/60 after a long spell of slowly ramping up training towards an Ironman. But if I try to jump in a few days from, say, zero to -20, I might find myself needing to take an unscheduled day off. It's really best IMO to use multiple metrics to decide if you are ramping up too fast, or flirting with over-training. EG: general overall tiredness, fatigue, aches, pains, etc; mood - grumpy = bad; sleep - difficulty, or needing more than usual; difficulty maintaining weight; rising resting heart rate; etc. Then correlate all that with what you see on the Performance Management Chart. Eventually, over the course of several training cycles, you will learn what does and doesn't work for you.
All that said, during a program like the GF, with a lot of high intensity work, I've found staying within the -teens works best, and flitting down to -20s once a week after a long/hard Saturday. Always keep an eye on those downstream workouts. The "RAMP" - basically the rate of rise (or more precisely, fall) of the CTL is a key number - how fast are you putting that increased load into your system?
I'll weigh in on the TSB discussion. I usually start feeling crappy when I'm at -30 for 2 or more days. After a long weekend, I'm OK at -30 to -40 for Monday, but any longer than that, I'm like everyone else and want to be in the -20 range. After a race taper, I usually am about +20 or so. However, more important than anything, as several have said, is how I feel on any given day. For instance, my TSB didn't know that Sunday night I only slept 3 hours, worked for about 6 hours, then drove 6 hours; I certainly wasn't going to run after that, regardless of TSB (but it was -40 anyway...).
Did most of the IMoo course today as my Thursday long run (traveling for work; is it sad I miss my trainer and SCY pool?) - https://www.strava.com/activities/524242576 . I plan on doing the Tuesday 3 x 1, 2 x 1/2 WKO on the TM at the hotel either tomorrow night or Thursday morning.
Generally on the TSB train of thought, curious what people are doing in terms of actual days off during the GF plan, given high intensity and rare scheduled full days off. Are folks taking one day off per week, one day off per every two weeks, doing every workout as scheduled like a beast? So far I'm at about 1 day off per two weeks and that seems to be working to keep my fatigue level in a good spot, though I'm mildly injured with peroneal tendonitis so my run intensity is not there (having to sub some runs with elliptical workouts and cut others short).
@Al- thanks for the more detailed response about your experience with TSB, it was helpful!
Happy training all! Traveling for work= finding fun pools in new locations.
Carole
Tonight is the 90' run, probably gonna aim for my weekly half marathon and tomorrow is the tuff weekly ride.
next week is the last in the GF aka test week before entering the HIM plan.. which I am happy to jump in!
keep it up team !
Fatigue from last weekend's wko's has carried on through this week in the form of laziness and lack of motivation to train. TSB number is back down to the -teens and life is starting to feel better.
@Al - thanks for sharing your detailed experience training fatigue. Definitely put things into perspective.
Time to improvise and adjust for me. Out last weekend for SAU's with vacation time in Tucson. Ran a lot but was off the bike/swim for a week.
Now that I'm back I find that my trusty 2010 Cervelo P2 has a frame crack. Working with a couple of LBS here to get the frame warranty claim submitted. So I'll be on my road bike for a while (2008 Cervelo RS). The first IM plan race is a HIM in June so I have some time if we can get the frame matter turned around in a few weeks...we shall see.
Really happy having a rest day today before.
Which week are you in ??
Put in a twofer yesterday.
Part 1 - Gym "bike"
7x1'(1") @ 1.20
15'@ .80
13'@ .75
Part 2 - Late PM trainer
20' - w/u
65'@ .85
I'll have a heavy bike focus this next week. Our family vacation to FL starts on 4/6. Not sure if I will be able to work in any bike work for two weeks. Since I can't run much, I'll have to figure something out.
Afternoon run today for 3 miles. After two weeks rest, no foot pain.
Beginning of GF (last ftp test) I was at 71.2kg with a FTP of 269 = 3.77w/kg
End of GF today's ftp test - 67.2kg with a FTP of 266 = 3.95w/kg
The way I "see" it is that im lighter which makes it less tuff on the run and not much a loss in power.
The bigger factor is likely the accumulated fatigue from the GF's combination of high volume and high intensity. One day of rest wasn't enough to get your strongest test result. A full taper would give you a much higher FTP test result, but clearly that's not the main goal.
You'll do another FTP test on the HIM program. Keep the same protocol going into it - I bet you'll see an increase simply from being used to testing with residual fatigue.
And by the way, 3.95 w/kg is an outstanding number for this point in the season!
That's a great result Francis!
I've delayed yesterday's bike FTP test (hamstring strain) but went did my 1000yrd TT swim this morning. My time was 19:08, compared to 19:19 on February 22nd. I'm still slow, but I'm improving.
Was able to cut 16 seconds on my last test at the beginning of the GF, really happy with results and I am also happy how I paced the test, all splits are going down.
https://www.strava.com/activities/531316062/overview
Tomorrow 150' bike ride and Friday is swim test.
Later that night, I squeezed in an hour on the trainer last night, finishing up around 11pm. I just started re-incorporating intervals, vo2 set done earlier this week. Last night I was going to try for 8' of ftp work and see how the body respond. Here's what transpired:
25'@ 1.00
11'@ .85
I wanted to keep going on the ftp set, but calf cramping shut that down.
https://www.strava.com/activities/532689987
1:27/100M