2016 JOS Wk 8 Bike Thread - Like you have a gun to your head Pt Deux
Nothing sells like a sequel of a hot topic. I am hoping that the reason why the postings have slacked off since the original thread of this title is because everyone is so tired from the hard work they have been doing.
This is the week that we we validate what we have/ have not accomplished. For many it will be a pat on the back, for some that have slacked off, it will be a wake up call that the OS has only 7 weeks left. For ALL, there is still plenty of time for hard work and measurable results...
For those that are newer to EN and testing, hopefully the last few weeks have shown you how hard, "hard" is. The test is the time to dial it in and do your hardest. The original EN testing protocol was to do ___ intervals "like you have a gun to your head." the further protocol stated that you should get off your bike with legs shaking and the desire to puke.
I am looking forward to reading some great results, questions and the always lively discussion.
As your moderator, the last few weeks involved a lot of travel and distractions, Plugging back in & carrying on!
Comments
Anyway about the test. I weighed myself when got up (138lbs.) WAs glad to see under 140 and keeping at my goal weight. In the warmup did a 3 minute effort at goal ftp of 260ish then 2 min. at 280ish. The 5 min. all out (120%) felt not as bad as expected and ended with 302 watts. Followed that with a super soft pedal for 10 min. slowly up to 50% right before the 20 min. effort. I feel I paced the 20 minute part perfectly other than maybe the first 2 minutes as I started off a little hot (275 watts) from the excitement of trying to do good test. I settled back down to right around 265 watts and just held right there till around 15 to 16 minutes in. The HR drifted up to what was always that point on the bike if it goes over I'm done in a hurry, so I just tried to pick it up a little but there was not much to give and the mental of knowing 4 more minutes I backed off. With less than 2 minutes to go though I know I had a little left, or at least mentally thought I did and finished strong which bumped the number up a watt or 2 at the end. Ended with NP of 265watts which puts new FTP up from 230 at the beginning to 253 now and reached my goal a little early of 4.01 w/kg.
Now the hard part is improving the w/kg from here... each .1w/kg will hurt!!!
First time ever after a test on bike I did do a little run after.
Like Trent, glad that's over! Week 1 VO2 was 272, but I blew up on it, Week 8 was 266, but I may have bagged a little. Week 1 FTP was 230, Week 8 FTP 253 X .95 = 240 ! Nice 10 w bump. Pacing for this test was a good improvement over some in the past.
Didn't get the run in, 44 deg. and pouring rain.
Debated for a while in bed if I should wake up and test or wait for a better time... walked around the house a couple of times to see the kids and the dog sleeping and finally decided to do it and got in the bike at 5:30 or so... GOOD that I did !!!
New FTP is 22W higher than my previous test (from 210 to 232 W)
I was not too aggressive with the 5 initial VO2 minutes and remained at the 266 level
VERY Glad it's over !
LINK --- > https://connect.garmin.com/activity/1060690025
Great job, everyone! Some really nice power bumps showing up here and on Strava, with more to be discovered as the day goes on. @Trent, mind-blowing that you're already over 4 w/kg, with that foot speed, in February. If you stay healthy and get your swim in order, you're gonna blow away your competition when the race season comes around.
I have one of those 15-hour board meetings today, so no way I was gonna test before it (indoor testing, for me, can be a complete day-ruiner). But I've seen enough data, personal trends and test results over the years to know what my current power numbers are w/o testing. That is, I knew going in that ~263 was pretty close to 100% and that 290 was the top of my VO2 game. And the math showed that 290 is 110% of . . . 263. So, instead of testing today, I just tried to confirm that 263 number. Rode 30' @265, and it felt more like 101%, as I was a shaky, slobbering mess at the end. So, I'm very confident in my numbers, prepared to move forward. Started the OS doing 245 threshold repeats, 270 VO2 repeats - so progress has been made. Based on today's pre-ride scales reading, that puts me at 3.89 w/kg. Goal for the second half of the OS is snag another 10 watts and jettison some of the excess kg's.
I know its February but I woke up thinking it was Halloween this morning after reading all of the Scary strong testing reports flowing through including MRs pre-Board Meeting activities!
@ Trent - throwing down a 4.01 while running high volumes sub-7 is something I still can't wrap my head around. Truly monster material here.
@ Mark, Gonzalo, Derrek - all coming in scary strong on the improvement side
.............No way I can ever manage a 10%+ improvement......I'll just have to bow my head, roll up me sleeves and keep working off of all the free mojo flowing in this haus!
Well deserved and hard earned paybacks are flowing strong it seems from the prior 7 weeks of WORK!
Nothing exciting from me, just some Tuesday morning Dark Place FTP work: https://www.strava.com/activities/500339935
Good luck this week all!
SS
@Mark and Gonzalo, congrats on the improvement...it makes all the work worth it.
X3 on glad that's over. I tested in the morning because I didn't want to worry all day about how to execute the test and what to/not to eat during the day. I had a good warm up adding on 10 mins to the Trainer Road workout. The VO2 test started off ok then quickly started to feel too hard and I backed off after the first minute or so. It's hard to judge how aggressive to do these 5 min tests knowing what follows. Bottom line is I underperformed: NP 265. My plan for the 20' test was to build up to my estimated watts the first 10 mins, then hold, build again and hit the last 4-5 mins hard. What happened was I started way too high, like 300 watts and quickly came back to reality and settled around my estimated watts. So much for building. I tried to maintain until the half way point and then focused on building 5-10 watts higher every 4-5 mins. In the end I was very satisfied with my results as it validated what I suspected the past 2 weeks. FTP: 252, 29 watt/13% increase (Test 1 FTP: 223). This puts my w/kg at 3.3...long ways to get to 3.8.
So, I'm in new FTP territory as this FTP is even higher than my outside FTP from last June (244)...yay!
I didn't run as I had to get to work but might do it this evening...however it is an optional run (e.g. I doubt it will happen)
I hope everyone tests well this week.
@Mark : Good job! , you were coming from a nice number , so I would take 10W extra any day ! (that´s more of what I got other past OSs when I did not need to recover lost power in my legs from months of not having trained properly
@Trent : awesome bump too ! you will fly at the races
Good job everyone and waiting to see more test results coming !
Crazy numbers I'm seeing coming in today! WooHoo everyone:-)
VO2 - 299
FTP - 262x.95 = 249.
I felt that I paced them both pretty well. My target for the 5min was 300 and I just couldn't make it happen.... I had an idea my FTP would be right around 250 based on my last few rides, but that I would have to work to get there. I break the 20min interval into 4x5min....these ended up (by memory) at 260, 261, 261, 267....we'll see what WKO gives me for the number. I think I might be able to squeeze out another watt or two across all four intervals, but not much more than that. And I really felt like hurling during the last minute.
A successful test.
Will edit later and post Garmin link.....
Great riding everybody!
Ya'll be killing it; after finally having my first solid week last week of 5+ hours of riding and about 32 miles running, I wasn't sure what to expect. 207 week one, 221 week eight; pretty stoked about the 14 watt bump, and just 8 watts off of last years outdoor 229. As this is my first solid out season, I'm really enjoying the getting ahead of the curve going into the season. I also may have bagged the VO2 at 243:o) Last 8 minutes of test was a friggin slog and I was just counting pedal strokes every minute.
Great job to all on the bike test and good luck on the run test. I haven't done a run test in years, as I absolutely hate 5Ks:o) I do a bit of running year round, so generally pretty comfortable about improving via RPE etc. I think I can swag/guesstimate where my run time would likely be.
This morning before work I pushed out 346/276. I did a good VO2 set... but didn't do the greatest job pacing the :20. I started out hoping to keep it around 285... but found myself trying to hold 295 instead... mistake! I was there until about 10' in... when the watts started to drop... rallied a little in the last minute to push the average watts to 289... was a really dark ride at the end... spent. The HR data said it all. I had joked with Ed C a few weeks ago that I was always unable to average 160 bpm for a bike interval... I did it today... and for a 20! Great WO for sure...
I just got a Kickr about a week and a half ago and had the same issue. I have a 9 speed cassette and you are right, the Kickr comes with a 10 speed cassette. I took it to a bike shop and they changed out the cassette on the Kickr to a 9-speed and it is working much better.
Great test numbers out there, good work everyone!
As I reported on last weeks thread, I tested saturday, got a 5w bump and took it. I have to add, I then did the remainder of the saturday ride and 30min bric. I may have had a few more watts in me but I will know if i am going over 1.0 early on.
Today, 1x15' and 1x10' at 1.0 and 1.01 Didn't feel too too hard
My only goal from this week's test was to get a realistic number that won't disappoint me every time I do a wko. I have been using my outdoor test from October-ish because I wasn't able to test the week we were supposed to. And I've started doing my wko on the trainer and my test was outdoors. I tried subtracting 10W and that didn't work. Weeeeeellll....my indoor test FTP is 24W LOWER than what I have been using! That explains a lot! It's humbling, but at least I have a real number now.
The good news is that for once, I didn't dread testing. I figured one 5' and one 20' was easier than all the wko we've been doing! But rode like there was a gun to my head. Then I ate a piece of bread and went for a 2 mile run. Never did THAT before!
did the bike test last nite and FTP went from 194 to 224....most of that was lousy bike training before JOS....but the 224 is near all time high....paced it pretty well with HR hitting zone 5 last few minutes...I forgot how slow the last 5 min goes on the test....uggg...now the fun begins as we try to work @ our new zones....not sure how much more these old legs can pump out but shooting for 230's in 6 weeks....this portends good things once we get outside and I pick up another 10-15w
The not so good news - oh so low! ... as in new PR low.
VO2: FTP - 175, HR - 154
20' test: FTP - 129, HR - 155
The diagnosis - Hell... I dunno! It could be:
1- I'm just plain out of shape... admittedly I'm not hitting all my wkos but I'm pretty much hitting all the key ones and this is pretty typical early season for me.
2- My late December lower back issue that had me stand down a couple weeks, affected me more than I realize (although I've felt absolutely no aftermath for a solid 6 weeks.
3- mid-2015 I switched to 165 cranks and a Stages pm (which only measures left leg output and then multiplies x 2... maybe the multiplication is not working!! Yeah, I wish!
4- I've lost my ability to suffer?? HR higher on 20' vs VO2 interval sure doesn't seem right. And while I "thought" I was pushing hard and was def wiped at the end, I did not feel like I was going to puke.
I've never had a great FTP; think my high is 165 - 170, but this new low is kind of depressing! I'm going to continue to dig into past tests to see what I find, especially interested in HR from the past. FYI... no difference in weight. I've been 125-130 for years.
So, there you have it! I welcome any feedback and words of wisdom! Onward and upward!
The studies I have seen suggest that crank length is not very important in power (within reason). It's possible you have an imbalance that the Stages PM is translating into lower overall numbers, but even there, you'd expect to see consistency....meaning that if you tested on them at the beginning of the OS, you wouldn't particularly expect a drop at this point. OTOH, if you are comparing numbers from one PM to another, there is the possibility that one or the other of them is grossly out of calibration. If you have a friend with a PT or something, it might be worth doing a ride with both PM on to just double check that they are within a couple percent of each other.
I don't see a problem with higher average HR on the 20 than on the 5. Could go either way. Bottom line is that HR takes a minute or two to really catch up with you, so the 5 minute test is too short to have a meaningful average (especially since you do it first, and may or may not be really warmed up). You might look at the actual HR plot, and find that your max HR was higher in the 5 min than the 20 min, even though the averages were very close.
One, if you feel that it's crazy low, set your FTP just above that test and see how the intervals go. If you start knocking those intervals out, keep ratcheting the swag up every couple of weeks until you get to a point that you are hanging on the last couple of minutes of the interval. This is prob the technique you've used since your last test.
Or, two, since you did the test, accept the test. Spend the next several weeks using that test as your bar, nail all of the intervals prescribed, then retest when ordered. You might not like that 'low' FTP, but, your body might respond better over the long term if you take a more conservative (but, consistent) approach at spending time in the proper zones. There's something very rewarding in going week after week beating the interval.
And, of course, there's always a small possibility that you may have some residual weakness in a leg (or both legs) from the lower back issue. Just something to consider that you and your docs/PT can work on.
@Chris - good approach going forward, plus I'll throw in some trainer work on the road bike / Quarq and see what kind of results I get.
@William - not sore or tired... I feel great! Appreciate your feedback, and am very curious to see the Quarq results.
I'm not crazy about that dang stages and regret swapping the Quarq over to the road bike (was trying to get a cost effective 2nd Pm AND shorter cranks). I've had way more issues with the stages, and now this!
The value of these OS threads really come thru during test week.... I am gathering all the mojo here for my test on Saturday....
BTW, I know from experience that my Stages runs 10w lower than my Quarq.
And, you should be aware that a road position will yield a bigger number than an aero position, right? Now, if you tested using your tri bike BUT were sitting up the whole time, then, I'd call that a wash.
Still trying to read through this entire thread while managing my work inbox... finally got on the bike for the FTP test.. didn't sleep well last night and felt pretty shizzy..
I am too accustomed to ERG mode and I overcooked things for 10 minutes in slope mode. I am still a fan of the 2x20 test and I overcooked the first 10 minutes bouncing between 255-270 when I wanted to be at 251-258...
Since I've been doing good WKOs at 1.02/1.03 on a 239 FTP, I'm going to SWAG my FTP at 247 which is equal to my lifetime high achieved early last summer outdoors on the tri bike... So now assuming I can hold .95-.98 in the first Wkos of the new FTP, I am pressing into new territory... now about that body comp
@Caroll - need to test in Slope mode... ERG is definitely easier, hard, but not the "right" way... I can't explain, one of the true scientists around here could... jenks? Jenks???
@Julie - listen to Chris - SWAG is the way to got... set the intervals at a number you think you can do and see how the WKOs go.. if you are hitting the numbers or over .95IF, you are in the right neighborhood.. if you have been at this for a while, you will quickly know where you are.
@Chris - I know from experience that my legs run 10 watts lower than my mind
LOTS of great results here and really good team work helping each other decipher the data and plans going foward.. see you all over in the running thread tomorrow!
and @Chris - I'll take your +10, add another 15 that I see difference between left and right, THEN I'm at a number that feels reasonable! Seriously, it's just a god damn number and the point is to see the number gradually increase!!
Congrats to all for your numbers and putting it out there!
Great job everyone! I upgraded my trainer this year from a cycleops fluid to a Cycleops Jet Pro. WOW what a difference. My numbers decreased significantly with the harder trainer which is difficult to swallow. I was around 230 at the end of the 2015 January outseason with my old trainer. This year my Jan FTP was 154 and my new FTP is 169. I'll take the 15 watt increase! Keep working hard!
K2