ROI and power tap expense
Hello all financially challenged Trathletes,
EN is great with time and training ROI - that's why I'm here - and the coaching expense promises great ROI. But what about equipment ROI? Is there such a thing as 'entry-level' power meter? (I've been using HR training for 6 years). What about renting a faster/lighter bike (compared to my entry-level $900 tri-bike) for my first IM in Sept 2016? What about renting a faster/lighter wheels?
In answer to the "best bang for the buck" equipment question, I got an aero-helmet for my first HIM in 2013. What's your answer? i.e., what is the smartest equipment purchase in "dollars per minute" return-on-investment?
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Here are a couple examples of super cheap Powertap wheels (I'd pay a little extra for wireless, but many of people have trained/raced well for years on wired wheels, especially if $ is the most important variable):
http://www.ebay.com/itm/CycleOps-Powertap-Pro-Road-Bike-Rear-Wheel-700c-Clincher-10S-DT-Swiss-RR585-/351666332804?hash=item51e0f26484:g:oCkAAOSwWTRW1MVz
http://www.ebay.com/itm/301885802031?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&fromMakeTrack=true
http://www.ebay.com/itm/CycleOps-Power-Tap-SL-Pro-2-4-Shimano-wired-/191820851312?hash=item2ca969e870:g:njgAAOSwvgdW3F2v
http://www.ebay.com/itm/CycleOps-PowerTap-Mavic-Open-Pro-Wheel-SSC-Computer-Hear-Wired-Power-Meter-700c-/151933923405?hash=item235ff7b04d:g:HZkAAOSwwPhWhKXc
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mavic-Ksyrium-Elite-Road-Wheelset-Clincher-10-speed-with-Powertap-wired-rear-hub-/272159097279?hash=item3f5df241bf:g:logAAOSwvUlWqs~V
http://www.ebay.com/itm/PowerTap-G3-DT-Swiss-RR465-Rear-Wheel-9-10-11-speed-used-/262320386705?hash=item3d13837291:g:eb8AAOSwvgdW2nkU
As for a rear wheel, no doubt the best bang for the buck is to buy a used PT wheel and a wheel cover. I am completely with John that the thing to do is buy used. I have bought a total of 4 PT wheels over the years, and of them, only one was bought new...to wire into a used 404 wheel. I would go wireless because of the head issues, and try to get something for about $500 or less, but wired will certainly work. I train all the time on a normal PT wheel and then just slap the cover on to race. And another good thing about that set up is that you don't have to buy the wheel cover at the same time.
I think another good choice for the price-sensitive PM would be a Stages. All you need to buy here is a left crank arm in the right length that will fit your crank. It looks like there are plenty of those on eBay in the < $500 range.
If you want to borrow a wheel for a few weeks while you shop around, I could arrange that with you and get you something at the end of this week...but I'm not ready to sell any of our wheels at the moment; believe it or not, they all get used. :-)
So, bang for buck:
1) You have a bike. Don't worry about the frame. Its contribution is trivial (not Zero, obviously...but small) compared to having a good fit on the bike. Don't upgrade your bike except for anything that makes the fit better.
2) PT wheel or Stages PM. This won't make you immediately faster, but it makes you train better and better disciplined on race day. No substitute. This is the only "expensive" thing on this list, but it's a great long term investment. Because of the "long term" part of it, I'd encourage you to go wireless on the PT (uses any ANT+ receiver) or go with the stages...but wired will also work.
3) Helmet
4) Clean up your set up on your bike
5) Use latex tubes on race day, and use low rolling-resistance tires. (I got some Conti 4000S on sale recently...would be willing to sell you a pair.)
Pretty much exactly what John W said....he's a beast, especially on the bike.
Feel free to get in touch and I'm happy to help with any of this. Off-business email = wsjinames@gmail.com, 451-4711
William
The only thing I can add is If I were to start over, I'd buy a power meter earlier in my bike career. It is the single best tool to improve your cycling ability. I'd save every penny to get a PM that worked best for my situation. DC Rainmaker's 2015 power meter guide provides a great dive into the category. He discusses the price drops in the category and the importance of selecting a PM which fits your cycling needs.
Implicit in the answer "Get a (used) PowerTap wheel" is the premise, with which I'm pretty sure WJ and JW would agree, that aero wheels offer the best bang for the buck, after an aero helmet for improved race performance. After that, changes required to improve fit (both the cost of getting fitted by a pro, and any new bike parts needed). At the bottom of the list would be a power meter - it will probably not get you any faster on race day. But that is a subject for another thread.
Looking back at my own triathlon progression, I saw quantum improvements in race day performance with (in chronological order): moving from a road bike with aerobars to a true tri bike(2000), getting Zipp 404 aero wheels (2005), putting on an aero helmet (2007). Nothing much changed in my race performance when I added a PowerTap rear wheel (2010), although my training did become more efficient, especially out of season training.
To the question, " what is the smartest equipment purchase in "dollars per minute" return-on-investment? " then, my answer is: rear wheel cover, rent a front aero wheel and get fitted on your current bike by a pro, not just your LBS.
If your question is, "what's the most cost effective way to start training and racing with power", then I agree with the others, buying a used PT wheel is the way to go. I have that (one each on my TT bike and a road bike), as well as a Stages on my newer road bike. The Stages so far just doesn't seem as reliable, i.e. consistent, as the PT.
And Al, you had been racing for 10 yrs before you added a powermeter, so you already had 10's of thousands of miles in your legs and dozens and dozens of races under your belt to fine tune the effort and execution. So you're nor a normal case study.
I went on the following assumptions:
1) that absolute dollars spent should be kept to an absolute minimum because this was Glenn's opening line "Hello all financially challenged Triathletes"
2) he was "relatively" new to long course because his first IM is 2016
3) he was interested in "long term gains" that a PM could bring (and why he's in EN), and not just slapping fancy wheels on the day before a race.
I absolutely agree that if your race is this weekend, a PM will make you exactly zero seconds faster and wheels/aero/helmet/position/clean bike/etc. will all make you immediately faster. BUT, if you have months (or yrs) to improve in this sport, I think a PM will make you faster/better. This is absolutely true in the OS and most indoor workouts for building FTP, etc. But it is also true in the build into your IM and teaching you how to pace. This will certainly give you a faster run and hence a faster OA time (IMO).
A fit is another thing all together. You should also do that! BUT, a good fit will cost as much if not more than a used PT wheel. Now it's about trade-offs. You won't know if you're faster/more efficient after a fit than before without something measurable (i.e. Power readouts). A bunch of pictures in the bike fit thread and comments from the veterans in the Haus can get probably you "close" for a fit for $0. This is not a substitute for a "proper" fit, but it's all about trade-offs. If it was a "one or the other thing" and I was "comfortable" on my bike already and was pretty sure that things like saddle height and reach were "pretty close", than I'd prefer to spend the $250 +/- on the Powertap.
Re: Wired vs. Wireless? An ANT+ Wireless Powermeter is definitely superior to a wired one. This will allow you to pair it with any watch or bike computer. But again, this comes down to trade-offs. If you can probably find a wired wheel for $175 or less and assume you will be paying $300 or so for an ANT+ one, ask yourself how important is that extra $125 (that's almost halfway to a pretty good "Bike Fit"). Honestly, instead of getting a wireless Powertap for ~$300, I'd rather spend ~$350-400 and get a used Quarq, which will serve you better than a Stages for the same to less money. But again, now we've walked the $$ up another $50-100 from the wireless PT.
So I guess I'd now ask the Million dollar question. What were you planning/hoping/expecting to spend? If the answer is <$175, then it's simple in my mind, a Wired PT. If it's $225-300, then a Wireless PT. If it's $300-450, then get either a Quarq, or get a wired PT and spend the balance on a good bike fit... <br />
Confused yet?
I had just assumed Quarq would be more expensive than Stages, and didn't check. Certainly either is ok, but all things being equal, Quarq is better...obviously.
Glenn is relatively new to long course triathlon, so I was working on JW's basic logic, too. but yes, given what Glenn already has, the one thing to buy for a race that was tomorrow would be a disc cover (and borrow my front wheel)...and double check his fit and setup are good. I'm pretty sure he's in triathlon for "the long run" though, so I thought the PM was worth the investment.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cycleops-Powertap-SL-Ant-Rear-Power-DT-Swiss-585-Wheel-rim-/121839669425?hash=item1c5e35d0b1:g:hT8AAOSw7FRWbc8I
http://www.ebay.com/itm/PowerTap-wheelset-Mavic-Open-Pro-10-speed-w-CycleOps-Joule-1-0-wireless-/281875689106?hash=item41a119ae92:g:kscAAOSwnH1WYhQC
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Powertap-Pro-power-meter-/151930349732?hash=item235fc128a4:g:WO8AAOSwhkRWgJUc
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mavic-Open-Pro-Rim-on-Powertap-SL-700c-Clin-Rear-Wheel-for-Shimano-8-9-10-speed-/351631039989?hash=item51ded7ddf5:g:eiIAAOSwoydWmaDx
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Powertap-Pro-Rear-Wheel-Powermeter-Velocity-Deep-V-Trainer-10-Speed-Ant-/272089346674?hash=item3f59c9f272:g:C5cAAOSw5IJWgdHy
http://www.ebay.com/itm/CycleOps-Pro-Powertap-Wireless-ANT-Hub-Mavic-700c-Clincher-Shimano-Hub-/121867410219?hash=item1c5fdd1b2b:g
Here are the cheapest Quarq's I have seen trade:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Quarq-Cinco-power-meter-compact-170mm-carbon-arms-/322025885933?hash=item4afa3d10ed:g:ne8AAOSwmmxW1zYL
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Quarq-Riken-Power-Meter-BB30-172-5mm-53-39t-/151993076067?hash=item23637e4963:g:r3IAAOSwll1WxeHA
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SRAM-Quarq-Powermeter-172-5-39-53-GXP-/331786662705?hash=item4d4006b331:g:bOkAAOSwll1WzQu0
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SRAM-Quarq-S975-GXP-170mm-compact-Crankset-Powermeter-/291686031867?hash=item43e9d7a1fb:g:~owAAOSwe7BWwnoS
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Quarq-Cinqo-Power-Meter-SRAM-S950-52-36-Bb30-175mm-/291681848792?hash=item43e997cdd8:g:58YAAOSwezVWuAdj
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SRAM-S975-Carbon-Quarq-GXP-Power-Meter-Crankset-175-mm-110BCD-39-53-/351644223279?hash=item51dfa1072f:g:9IMAAOSwpzdWr~i4
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Quarq-Saturn-SRAM-power-meter-170-mm-53-39-GXP-with-BB30-adapters-/121863063936?hash=item1c5f9ac980:g:y9MAAOSw5dNWhZOG
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SRAM-Quarq-power-meter-/262180232341?hash=item3d0b28dc95:g:Y9AAAOSw7FRWZcbg
Here's a live Quarq that will fit "most" bikes. But it's a Standard (53/39) and not knowing anything about you, I'd recommend a Compact (50/34) of a mid-Compact (52/36)
Quarq
Here's acompact but will likely trade higher:
Quarq2
Here's the cheapest "wireless" Powertap I see right now: Powertap
If you happen to have a 170mm Shimano Cranset (D/A-Ultegra-105), this Stages will work: Stages
I'd vote for getting the PM as well. For me I'd not worry about the bike or tire rental (borrowing is a great option) but save that cash for a new bike. Unless you are minutes away from Kona qualification I don't see the need for the bike or wheel rental especially when you are doing your first IM. For me I'd want to be on the same bike that I did my last race rehearsal barring some exceptional circumstance.
there are three groups on Facebook to pay attention to for lots of high quality good gear
https://www.facebook.com/groups/trinsell/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/onlineswap/
https://www.facebook.com/groups/812971535428693/
I am really impressed with the interest and responses to my question. I learned so much just reading the thread!
On deeper analysis of my situation with W.Jenks, local WSM, we decided I need different chain rings AND cassette for the hilly IMWI course. And since I need different chain rings, I might as well get (a wee bit) shorter cranks; And since I'm getting a different crankset, I'm leaning toward the crank arm PM solution, so I ordered Stages. That (not having PM in the hub) seems to give me a little more freedom for what rear wheel I could borrow :-)
I read a bit of DC Rainmakers stuff on the Stages unit, and I'm fairly satisfied I'll have what works for my demands. Looking forward to working out my critical power, practicing uniform output, and absorbing more knowledge bombs.
----^^^---- This will help you immensely at Wisconsin. You will see people grinding up hills like there's a KOM at stake....even on the first overpass. Keeping YOUR watts where YOU want them will set you up for a great run.