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Heading to the pool

Not clear yet what happened, but my knee decided to swell up after Wednesday's long run. Probably aggravated a small tear in a patellar tendon that happened years ago. Orthopod has said in the past 2-4 weeks for this, so I think I will be exiting the Jan OS now. I suspect the injury started on the Tuesday brick, so I am reluctant to bike or run, for now. Currently thinking of a 7-10 day bike break, and then re assessing run thereafter, depending on how long this swelling goes on for.

Seems like a good time to transition to the pool. Since I have nothing but time, could find myself there 3-5 days a week plus core. Having read the wiki, will work in some water running, but that sounds dreadful.

Thanks for any advice.

DS

Comments

  • Hope you get well soon
  • Doug, shut it down baby. Swim it out...just chill, no kick sets...just pull, stay fit and rest / ice / elevate.

    I would only try 15' of water running (pre / post) swim, etc...if there's no knee pain...
  • Coach,
    Today is day 11 of shutting down the knee. I was able to get in the pool 3 times last week, good work, but Thursday got slammed by what I think is a pool-acquired infection, so have been in total shut down - no nothin. The knee is not totally cool, but swelling is down about 80%. I am guessing another few days before the knee can be tested, but the infection is anybodies guess - received 2 weeks of antibiotics just yesterday, including a drug known to cause some tendon rupture with exercise (cipro).
    Needless to say, this is a mental test. Can definitely feel the OS fitness slipping away.
    Not sure I have a question here, mainly just venting. Thanks for reading.
    DS
  • Doug, you are my soul brother...and I hear you. Losing fitness SUCKS, but it just can't compete with overall health. IOW, there is no alternative -- pushing through what you are facing will UNDOUBTEDLY lead to terrible complications.

    If it helps. I am in Week 5 of zero exercise...looking forward to getting some steroid injection in my hip to help discern whether or not it's my hip joint that's causing the pain...or surrounding musculature!
  • Hold on guys. Continue to persevere! Sorry to hear about the challenges. I know you guys can handle it and come out stronger!!
  • @David - thank you very much.

    @CoachP: A large community of peeps orbits your athleteic ability, example and commitment. The impact of your injury in no way equates to mine. If I quit triathalon today, it would make zero impact. I/We are pulling for you.

    Infection resolved, knee swelling minimal, so today I did my first 30min run. Knee held, now in a holding pattern (it didnt swell until 6 hours after the run 2 weeks ago). Feeling hopeful.

    I have read the wiki and loaded an every other day run building from 30 to 45 minutes over 4 weeks as prescribed. Question now is - what about the other sports? I do believe the knee blew up in part because of a tough interval brick on Tuesday evening, followed by a long run Wednesday morning (plus other stressors), so it seems integrating the bike and swim into this run schedule needs consideration.

    DS
  • Thanks David!!!!!
  • Quick update - My knee felt fine, so went ahead and did the end of OS half 4/10, ran an all-time PR of 1:32, which is a VDOT of 49 (2nd 5K VDOT was 47). Knee did well, finished swim camp, and moving into the EN Full plan this week.

    FYI, ave HR for the 13.1 was 168.

    I assume all runs should be quite hard when your VDOT bumps up. For example, at the new VDOT (based on a 13.1 that was run at 7:02 pace), my new Z2 is 7:20 and Z3 is 7:06 - needless to say, my brick run today was tasty.
  • Doug - if you can walk with no impact on the knee, I would suggest you start hiking 2 hrs and build to 5 hrs. It's not running but I've read that it can build long course stamina. AFTER you get through that infection of course. Sucks to be hurt, but now is also a good time to bank some serious SAUs!
  • Boom! That's a fantastic result for you. The fitness is there, now the goal is to manage the functional stuff so you can run when you want. So I'd try to avoid back to back tough run days, for example...it just requires some creative thinking / planning and we can do that here in the micro.

    And yes, the transitional runs are hard. We recommend first few runs are splitting the difference (old zones vs new zones)...and when you adapt there, we can move the rest of the way. Let me know!

    ~ Coach P
  • Coach P-

    I am so glad you got out on the bike.long haul you have had.

    After the first split run Thursday, appears I sustained an "insertion Achilles" injury/tendinitis. Walking is quite painful, so imposed a run/bike jail since. I can swim.

    IM Victoria 6/12 - guidance for the next 2 weeks? I plan to take this day to day, but IM Canada looms larger than IM vic
  • Doug, bummer!!!

    1) Confirm your shoes aren't hitting the area. This happens quite a bit with more light weight shoes (They cut the heel down). I have had this before and it's a ridiculously simple fix (if that's it).

    2. Rest and ice now is good...but as soon as you can get to some eccentric calf work like this: http://bit.ly/1TIQlr3

    3. Ideally you can rest for this week..then get back to light cycling next. Then it's light running in walk / run starting the next week. Let' me know how the pain is when you get this.

    4. More good reading here from a good friend and really really smart guy: http://bit.ly/1TIQM4s

    Please keep me posted!

    ~ Coach P
  • Thank you. I have been running Hoka cliftons since mid-2014. I think the shoes are ok, suspect my problem is hill running... yet again. Have been doing the eccentric work now since Monday. I did a 30 minute Z1 spin yesterday without ill effect.

    Pain with walking is minimal now, but still there, except for getting out of bed in am. I now require a full 20-30 minutes of rolling/walking/warm up before pain/stiffness goes away. While I feel fine sitting here now, nearly noon, I am leary of running. I am thinking a run/walk this weekend.

    Really, the big question for me is IM victoria 70.3 on 6/12. I just don't know if it is smart to do it ~2 weeks out from this. I have no experience with achillies injuries and do not want to blow it up again. Going into this year, I mentally put IM Victoria as my AAA race, my confidence at that distance is way ahead of IM, and after winning the IMAZ lottery, I was mainly looking at IM Canada as a fun experience/fitness adventure. However, my training to this point has been decided IMC focused.
  • I see no Need for you to really push this half. Looking at it on paper to me it is 90% downside. I say that because you have so much left in your year that it seems really risky to roll the dice with how you feel right now.

    I like how you are handling things right now and I suggest you continue to warm up and do the rehab as you get back into swimming and biking consistently. Starting the run walk is fine but I would keep it very conservative: walk the first 10 minutes before trying to jog one minute...and then return to walking. Gradually build up the run duration as long as you feel okay. When you get home you'll want to immediately ice and elevate it and see how you feel the next morning.

    One day at a time!
  • Robin Sarner to the rescue! Please go to the main running resource page and scroll down to the water running section! Here's the link: http://bit.ly/1lDeQMq
  • Update - saw a sports medicine doc, he felt I should test a short slow run. I did a 40min run Saturday, a little stiff but not worse than before. I did another short run 48hr later (per his advice), no problem. 3rd run yesterday also well. The only hitch is the achillies is super tight for the first 10-15 minutes during the run no matter what type of warm up I do. After that period, the ankle loosens up and I can run without nearly noticing it. I am not setting any PRs with the paces, but went 6 miles yesterday, longest yet, and holding up well today.

    That combined with a quick review of the money we had poured into the trip, I am going to go for IM victoria. I plan to see what I am capable of on the swim and bike course. At that point I plan to test out slower-than-IM pacing x 6 miles, and see where that goes. At least I will get another t shirt image
  • OK! I like the plan; I hope you have a good POST RUN recovery for the achilles in place? What does that look like?

    And does biking beforehand help at all (think brick workout) or not? Just curious.

    Ps - It's not the shoe heel position? Or rather, your daily shoe that inhibits this? As in, more sore in AM when waking up or post work before a run?

    Sorry, I can't stop...
  • Waking up, the tendon is crazy tight still, but the time to get lose is getting shorter. I am able to wear old hokas at work most days, so I think not the shoes. Walk/ride/strength training - doesn't seem to matter what I do to warm up, those first 10 minutes of the jog are tight, but, definitely seem to be on the mend. I was able to hold TRP for 20 minutes on the dread today with 4 x3' z2 intervals without a hitch.

    Post run - more of the same, ice. I really plan to dial it back in Victoria, will happily walk it off as needed. It will be the first long run I do since the injury. Will follow EN guidance post HIM, plan to delay the RR1 a week unless I recover flawlessly.

    Gives me 5-6 week before IMC... Yikes!
  • Coach P,
    Quick recount of IM Vic - ankle held up, finished within 2 min of prior HIM run PR, and had my first sub 5 finish overall PR. (stoked) Since then, the runs have slowly become reliably good but I have rarely tested z4 and z5 speeds.
    Question - do I need to test now or do I focus on the 8:15 pace that many of my long runs have boiled down to?
    My last run test was the end of OS half marathon in April, which itself was a huge PR, gave me a 49 VDOT. Around that time I had the knee and ankle injuries, possibly due to trying to run to that new VDOT. Today I did the 18 mile run in 2:28 for a 8:14 pace. My prescribed paces were 8:40/8:04/7:24. I managed 8:20/8:15/7:50. Trying to go sub 8 was difficult, but not due to injury, possibly due to a lack of fitness. HR was quite reasonable over the milage - 148.
  • epic. In some strange way I bet that your injury put you in a box that allows you to run to your true potential. I don't see any value in you wanting faster or testing. I want you to continue running consistently, as that is what will allow you to get back to good health. But that probably won't happen before the race, so there's no point in the changing things up right now. If you want to improve the pace of the study effort you are able to sustain, I suggest you look at other changes. Options include body composition (a lighter you is a faster you), lighter equipment (lighter shoes), and even better nutrition.

    Basically, I feel like we are in a good path that we should keep going in the direction you're headed. image

    Sub 5 is LEGIT!
  • Would like to schedule a post-race (IM Canada) but not sure how. I clicked to the staff page, but that sent me to your "tent" page. DS
  • Doug, would love to chat. Maybe that link Hasn't updated for you yet, but it works just fine for me. You might need to do a hard refresh in your browser so that all of endurance nation is updated. Yes, we do actually update the site from time to time! :-)

    http://members.endurancenation.us/MyAccount/TeamENStaff.aspx

    That's the page ^above^ and here is the schedule link: My schedule is online here: http://meetme.so/patrickmccrann -- Please remember to include your phone number.

    If none of those times work, please let me know.
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