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Ironman Texas has a bike course - Well, kind of.....

Mark CardinaleMark Cardinale
in Racing Forum 🏎

The 2016 version of the IM Texas bike course was made public today.  Because of the challenges pulling off the course combined with the recent weather in the area, the course is 94 miles.  Also, if you look at the course there is something like 80+ turns making it very different than it has been in previous years.  Putting aside all the bike course drama just to get to this point with 2 weeks to go until race day, I'm interested to hear peoples opinions in terms of how to execute this course.  Does it make sense to adjust target watts to somewhere between IM and half IM?  What about equipment choices.  Does it still make sense to run disc with all the twists and turns?  Any input or thoughts?

Comments

  • Julian CassJulian Cass
    Good point on the number of turns, I see only 4-5 reasonable straight/fast sections. Couldn't find the profile but I expect it to remain flat. Certainly a different challenge to previous years. I still plan to use disc rear/808 front. Any thoughts on how this new course is with regard to the usual IMTX challenges of headwind and chipseal? The absence of chipseal sections could also impact tire pressure decisions.
  • tim cronktim cronk
    Since I have done IMTX twice I been following you IMTX peeps.... and the bike course drama.... Looks like a crappy course but hey at least its a course and the good news is its one lap so that helps all those corners a little bit....... @Mark 94 or 112 wouldnt change my target watts much (your only going to be done 20-30 min sooner so maybe up just a couple watts or at least the high end of your range)... Always always always use a disc if allowed is my motto:-) Be careful at the beginning with all the idiots over amping thru those corners...Most of all make sure you drive it at least once and more if possible to familiarize yourselves !
  • Paul HoughPaul Hough
    Definitely use the disk...there is no downside.
  • jimmy augustinejimmy augustine
    i don't think that I will do anything different. NP and heart rate will be the data points that I keep an eye on. On the bright side, mile 90 is usually about when I just wanna get off my bike.

    The whole swim-bike is just setting the table to run to potential in the warm steamy woodlands weather. I don't think that I have every really "under biked" an IM. I have under hydrated, I have under fed, I have undertrained. But I personally have never under biked.

  • Dave TalloDave Tallo
    What jumps out at me:

    That course screams opportunity. Please count on at least 15% of fast doodes who are racing aggressively to race even more aggressively. Don't get caught up in it. They'll pay in the marathon even more acutely than I'd it were 140.6.

    There are a ton of straights on this course. Stay low. Keep staying low.

    Learn to corner fast. In aero. Safely. Without dropping speed /momentum. Maybe Rich can repost a special 'cornering like a roadie' skills post. Most definitely do a few recon drives if the course and visualize your line for the various turns.

    Be super safe for the first 30 miles. There will be lots of aggressive racing and different worldviews of how to take a corner.

    A benefit of the momentum breaking turns is draft packs will be interrupted pretty frequently.
  • Julian CassJulian Cass
    Almost looks like a course for a road bike with drop bars?!
  • Mark CardinaleMark Cardinale

    Thanks for the feedback so far!  The main thing i'm taking away is not to let the new bike course change the way I'm planning to ride.  I will run the disc and stick to my sea level watt target while being in aero as much as safely possible.  I really appreciate the feedback.  It's very easy to overthink things so the sanity check is HUGELY valuable!  

  • Julian CassJulian Cass
    I'm with Mark - same power, same wheel and bike set up.

    There will be more corners but as this is a single loop the number of athletes arriving at the same time at each corner should not be any different to a normal IM should it? I am reading a lot of comments about how busy the corners will be, I don't see how that would be the case. There will be a lot more opportunities for incidents for sure but there should not be any more crowding than normal.
  • Dave TalloDave Tallo
    Inside the haus, I would say "execute as you would if it were a 112." On fb and slowtwitch, However, I would be tempted to dick-move my competition, and launch about 100 posts about what a cakewalk the new bike is going to be, or how the marathon won't be as hard as a 'normal' IM marathon. Guaranteed there are a lot of people thinking that!

    True that you can't choose who else is racing that day, but you can get in the heads of those who are, and scramble things up a bit!
  • robin sarnerrobin sarner
    Kind of wish i was racing. This year's course probably would suite my strengths.

    Not sure i agree with our smart folks. But they are smart.

    Fast folks could be 50 minutes faster on the bike, vs 112.

    So push a bit harder on the bike ? 2.5 to 5 percent ?

    Or 112 the bike and expect to be faster on the run? Target a bit higher heart rate ?

    Throwing out for discussion.

  • Mike RobertsMike Roberts

    I'm sorta like Robin in that I've been wondering what I would do if I were racing this year.  First off, I would view this as a huge opportunity.  So many people racing are freaking out.  Which couldn't possibly be better news for the well-disciplined racer.

    Second, I would do everything in my powers to make sure I'm top 50 in line for the swim.  Even if I'm a 1:12 swimmer, I want on that bike course early.

    Third, I'd make it a goal to pass at least 50 people in T1.

    Fourth, I know if I target 112-mile watts, I'd leave something on the course and maybe lose 10-15 minutes to the competition.  I balance that with, can I run much faster by riding at those lower, 112-mile watts?  Not knowing the one right answer, if there is one, I went to Best Bike Split last night, uploaded the new coarse, and messed around with variables.  One of which was designing a plan based on TSS, not watts or time.  I plugged in 270 TSS for the new course and the old (112) course.  Here were the results:

    2015 course, by 270 TSS = 190 NP, 22.12 mph, 5:03

    2016 course, by 270 TSS = 212NP, 23.28 mph, 4:01

    2016 course, by 190 NP:  22.33 mph, 4:12

    As you can see, the theoretical difference between riding the new course by 112-mile watts and 270 TSS is 11 minutes (4:01 vs 4:12). But it would require 22 more watts, much closer to a HIM effort than trad'l IM effort.  Which is kinda scary.  

    As for the run, if I rode 5-hour power for 4 hours, I would definitely feel fresher off the bike than in a typical IM.  But would it be 11 minutes fresher/faster than if I were to push it and ride 4-hour power for 4 hours?  That's the $1M question.  If I were targeting a KQ, I think I'd risk it, target TSS, bag those 11 minutes, and try to run a standard IM marathon.  But there are plenty of smart folks here who could probably talk me out of it.

  • Coach RichCoach Rich

    My quick thoughts:

    I really like Dave's insurgency campaign, spreading disinformation on ST. So awesome!

    Mark is a VERY strong runner and, if I were Mark, I think I'd be willing to spend maybe 5-7w more on that bike course vs my normal IM wattage. You can use BBS to model that out and see what that would get you timewise, then do the smart guy thing to consider what that means for the run.

    Corner:

    This is how I approach the corners at IMWI, another race with a lot of turns and therefore free speed if (1) you know the course and (2) can handle your bike:

    • Know the course. Recommend you drive it, slowly, paying attention to the corners: sight lines in and out of the corners, debris in the apex, and in particularly look for blind corners and "decreasing radius corners/curves. These are sharper than 90 degrees and/or the corner gets tighter as you move through it. 
    • When cornering I basically use the traffic cones as a "suggestion." For a right hand turn I'll quickly glance behind me to make sure no other athletes are coming up on me. Then I'll swing out wide to the left, using as much of the road as possible, maybe even going outside the cones. Then dive into the turn, straightening it out as much as I can by diving into the apex and going wide on the way out. So the sequence is wide / apex / wide. Zero braking and in the aerobars, keep pedaling if I feel it's safe. IOW, I do NOT hold my line and I use every inch of the width of the road in the corner to go as fast as I can. I also don't sweat if I go outside the cones, over the centerline a tick, etc. Also...fudge it, I'll pass you on the right, left, inside, outside, whatever. I'm racing and I'm a better bike handler than you. 

    So much free speed to be had, relative to how others will be riding, if you ride like this, and as Mike said it would pay to get ahead of as many people as possible on the course so you can ride like ^this^ without congested corners. 

  • scott dinhoferscott dinhofer

    Rich - hoping you repost ^^this^^ in the IMWI forum, or that it's in the wiki somewhere 

  • robin sarnerrobin sarner
    Jenn E.      any particular bike plans ?    As you will probably be the first woman your age off the bike, might you want to push it a bit playing to your strength ?
  • Mark CardinaleMark Cardinale

    +1 on Dave T.'s sabotage plan....I like it!!!

    I checked my numbers in best bike split and if i ride my normal sea level watts of around 210 that gives me a 4:06 bike split.  If i up my watt target by 10 (3.5%) to 220 that gives me a 4:01 - 5Min.  220 watts in an IM bike scares me and on one hand i know i need to take some risks, but on the other hand i know my silver bullet is the run and i need to preserve that at all costs.  Last August I ran a 3:27 in Boulder at altitude and after a bike crash.  The weather, however, was pretty favorable, upper 70's and overcast.  I feel with a 4 hour bike ride, being at sea level, and the fact i have done some real solid run training over the past 6 months, a 3:15-3:20 is a real possibility.  At least right now the extended forecast for next Saturday seems reasonable.

    So rolling all this together into my race plan i think i'm looking at seeding myself as much toward the front of the swim corals as i dare to go.  One way or the other it will be a huge advantage to be out on that bike course early.  I'm going to plan on riding around 210 and watch the heart rate and adjust from there.  Aero at all times unless safety dictates otherwise.  Great advice, Rich, on taking the turns.  Will specifically practice this on my last weekend ride and for sure will drive the course a couple times.  Great goal MR to pass 50 people in transition - both transitions will need to be squeaky clean.

  • Jenn EdwardsJenn Edwards
    Howdy!



    Yep, this will be a fun one for sure.  The big data points for me are watts and HR based on last year’s Goldilocks double and a couple of recent rides in the heated pain cave.  Bottom line:  I am targeting a VERY slight increase in power with my HR limiter still in place.  With so many lessons learned from the extreme differences in temperature I raced in 2015 I’m much more tuned in to the impact of heat on HR. That’s going to be in play on both then bike and then run regardless of the distance.  As my FTP is the same, this does represent a 3-5w bump over the original plan which coincidentally is in line with Jordan’s thoughts.  http://forum.slowtwitch.com/forum/?...6#p5934936



     

    Data points from last year’s Goldilocks Double:



     



    For the recent data point I’m using this ride in the heated pain cave I did with rolling 25’ intervals between 160 and 170w.  The temp increased from 72 to 82 degrees, no wind, essentially as effing miserable as we could get it even though that’s child’s play compared to what we may be facing on race day.  







    My intention is to start at 155w for the first 20’ then 160w for the next 20’.  From there, I’ll continue to build by 5w increments as long as I can keep my HR still below 140-145.   I’ll do that until I hit 170 which will be my wattage limit.  







    Other thoughts are:



    - Absolutely using the entire road and staying aero when safe on the turns.



    - Accelerating smoothly out of the turns.  No need to stand up and hammer to get back up to speed, IMO.



    - Ridiculous communication when passing other riders. “I’m on your left red!  I’m coming though just hold your line. Thank you!”  etc.  Friendly but firm.  :-)  





    Certainly open to other insights and I’ll be listening intently at the webinar on Monday.



     



    Cheers!

  • jimmy augustinejimmy augustine
    this is all good stuff. Gonna do as much turning as I can over he next 10 days.
    I think that I will just shift more focus to HR. My HR can tend to drift towards the end of long hot rides. So when trying to hold hr steady, power fades. If this course really is easier then I wont fade at the same HR.
    I guess I just had such a bad go on this course in 2014 that the last thing I want to do is give my self the "ok" to bike harder. I am just not that close to the pointy end in terms of fitness.
  • robin sarnerrobin sarner
    Thx jenivere. Sounds good.

    Have fun y'all. Good luck and skill.


    Let me know if an entry slot opens this week. Kidding. Sort of.
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