Newbie Needs Advice - Nutrition Plan
Please help ... I am new to this sport and new to the team ... I have read through a lot of the threads in the nutrition forum and did not see a discussion that directly correlates to my situation ... so here I go.
My expectations = finish my race in August, know my body ... year two and three I will learn to race!
I've been training most of the year to do my first full IM at CDA in August. I had hoped with the constant workouts that weight would fall off of me ... so a couple of months ago I started on a mission to understand more about my body through data and analysis ( I am an engineer). For all of my adult life all the doctors I have been to or know say calories in < calories burned = weight loss. Maybe for most in the "bell curve" that works, but not for me. I have been eating a pretty strict Paleo like diet for a few months and staying about the same weight ... my training has been hard and steady ... my body fat% is slowly coming down. I did INSIDE TRACKER comprehensive analysis with InnerAge ... I am 7 years younger than my actual age so encouraged! Most categories were optimized. If I drink a beer or have a cheat day on the weekend ... I might gain 8-10 pounds!
I have started working on the Execution portion of my race planning and filled out the nutrition plan and have executed it during workouts with good precision ... not good impact on performance. It seems like all the sugar in Gatorade Endurance, Bars, and ClifBloks (trying to stick to what's on the race course) makes me slightly comatose as I do not eat much processed sugar in my normal diet. A1C was elevated on Inside Tracker but thought it was mostly attributed to all the training. My recovery suffers too after consuming that much sugar .. for a day or two after my long training days I feel foggy and sluggish ... IMO because of the sugar/insulin spike. It seems counterproductive to keep going down the same path expecting different results. Please help!
On my mission I am now seeing a natural doctor, doing blood tests, stool tests, 23 and Me tests, and eating more calories of the same clean diet to kick start my metabolism, in his opinion. I have done bloodwork over the past two years so everything is improving but hyper sensitive to sugar I guess.
So, how do I stay on track training and preparing for my race WITHOUT dependance on sugary, highly dense, caloric sources? I will share my results with the team as they come in just need help as I figure it all out ... a giant puzzle!
SAMPLE NUTRITION PLAN
Pre-Race - Intek Evolution Protein Powder Drink 320 Calories, 2g sugar (sweetened with Stevia) + L-Carnitine Dose + Black Cherry Concentrate 1 tsp
Swim - don't feel effect necessarily - not hungry or thirsty during workout.
Bike - per hour - 2 bottles gatorade endurance + 3 ClifBlok Chews ( 1 every 20 minutes) + GU Electrolyte Replacement + 3/4 of Clif Bar for approximately 600 calories & 1000 salt. Pee about every two hours.
Run - per hour - 1 bottle gatorade endurance + 3 ClifBlok Chews ( 1 every 20 minutes) + GU Electrolyte Replacement + 1/2 of Clif Bar for approximately 400 calories & 1000 salt.
I have tried Honey Stinger Gold and liked it ... still sugar though. I prefer coconut water for hydration but can't carry enough on the course. Thank you for your time and I appreciate any and all input ... newbie but dedicated and open minded for thoughts and opinions.
Marc
Comments
your calories per hour on the bike and run seem way to high. Not knowing your weight and sweat rates, I'd seriously consider cutting your bike calories in half. Start getting rid of the solid stuff first. Run seems way high too. Stick with Gatorade only.
For some prespective, On the bike, I drink infinite no solids or gels. Total calorie intake per hour ranges between 280 and 350, and I've never felt depleted, cramped, etc.. On my runs, if it's less than 75 minutes, i don't even bother drinking anything during - only before and after. Yes, I know I break some EN rules on the run, but it works for me.
Best bet is to experiment and see what happens.
Keep us posted and good luck.
Chris
First thing I did was buy a food scale and FitBit HR, downloaded the FitBit App and the MyFitnessPal App, and bought one of those old school bounded calendars. Ok, so my wife for example, cringes at the site of the food scale and thinks I'm nuts. But, until you can measure exactly what you are digesting, then calorie and nutrient intake tracking is a wild-ass guess. The FitBit HR estimates calorie burn, based on your HR throughout the day, and while probably not dead on accurate, with a few weigh-ins compared to your calorie and nutrient intake throughout the week, gives you data points you can incorporate into your food plan. My point, whether the FitBit over or underestimates will become apparent after a few weeks of weigh-ins, and you can adjust your calorie/nutrient intake accordingly. The MyFitnessPal App is your encyclopedia for food calories and nutrients. Measure your food (or reference the labels when consuming the entire package/can) enter into the App, and it gives you your calories and nutrients for the day.
Assuming you are measuring the food correctly, having your data points from your daily calorie burn and weigh-ins, and achieving a recommended deficit in calories (3500 calories a week or less), then the science says you will see the weight come off. As an engineer, you might actually enjoy the math problems like I do.
As far as my nutrient tracking, I'm in the same boat as you - I try and avoid the high sugar intake products unless I have to. For me, that means that I do not fuel during workouts that are 1 hr. or less. This might not be EN protocol, but I'm almost 100% certain that Coach Rich has a similar approach (I could be wrong). That said, and I train really early in the morning, I do fuel my body after those shorter workouts with good wholesome food. For longer training sessions, or doubles, I do utilize G. Endurance, bars or gels. Not exactly organic, but needed to train during those longer sessions. Of course, when I do intake this type of fuel, I track it like anything else and try and make up for the higher sugar with my other meals.
Not sure if this is at all helpful, but it works for me. The FitBit is the best $150 I have ever spent, as it gives you that "number" for calorie burn that seems a bit more personal than the various calorie equations that are purely based on age, height, weight.
The one negative about the FitBit is that you cannot wear it in the pool. My Garmin watch measures calories during my swims, so I just add that calorie burn to the number the FitBit spits out, so I know how much food I can keep to keep a deficit.
@Kyle, a brother in arms ... I do track on MyFitness Pal and wear a Misfit for activity 100% of the time and SUUNTO Ambit3 Peak HR for workouts and agree that calorie adjustments are all over the place. For my metabolic rate I used this link for a rough resting metabo baseline http://www.freedieting.com/tools/calorie_calculator.htm ... For most of this year I stayed around 1,200'to 1,500 clean calories per day ... Don't have a food scale though ... And following coach P's podcast treat my training calories separate from existence calories ... Still fluctuate between 235/240 ... Just stuck. Did I read that right that the deficit should be less than 3500 calories per week? My deficit is much greater than that so maybe my body thinks I am starving it? Thoughts?
@ Brenda ... I envy you ... Seems like carbohydrates are my Kryptonite ... After all this testing I hope to understand why ... At the end I truly want to be fit and a competitor. Did my first tri many years ago and after a 20 year retirement (kids and life) I am back with some scars of Father Time! I read a pretty good exchange about UCAN and thought "I need to try that". Good insight about special needs ... At what point on bike and run do you get those in a full IM?
Thank you all for your kind words and advice, keep it coming! I will certainly pass along medical findings after all my results are in ... Maybe my path will be of value to others, soon!
Marc
Also, get the food scale. Got mine at Target for like $30 bucks (Biggest Loser branded!!). While I'm decent in ball-parking both oz and grams nowadays, at the beginning, I was way off. Though, like I said, weight scales are boarder line obsessive/compulsive, so be prepared to take the cracks from the family, plan your daily/weekly menu, and prepare to eat a lot of the same things consistently for breakfast, lunch, dinner and snacks!
Good luck - all else said, it is truly a math problem.
First for my disclaimer: Many very smart and very fast people on this team (Tim Cronk, Coach P, etc. etc.) use the core diet approach with massive sugar intake to fuel their workouts and races with great success.
However, every person is different and each of our bodies handles nutrition in different ways. I personally believe sugar is an "inflammatory agent" and that it does negatively effect your recovery from workouts and increased that intake over time will negatively effect overall longevity. There are some VERY fit people who aren't necessarily "healthy". But just like gluten, each person likely sits somewhere on a spectrum with how their body processes sugar and it may or may not effect Coach P or Tim Cronk the same way it effects you or me or Kori Martini... If you want a little more of the background on my history and experimentation (and struggles with sugar), you can read these couple of older threads:
Recreational Sugar: http://members.endurancenation.us/Forums/tabid/57/aft/10610/Default.aspxAnyone else "Fat Adapted": http://members.endurancenation.us/Forums/tabid/57/aft/15585/Default.aspx
Now back to the specific thoughts you raised in your original post... I do virtually all of my training workouts completely fasted... The only exception is my long rides. So my normal routine is to get up very early, have a few gulps of water, then I'm out the door for my swim, bike or run. If it will be less than an hour or so, I don't bother to take water with me either. If I'll be running more than 1.5 hrs and it is hot or humid, I will take a water bottle with me. Then I simply based on the logistics of my life, I generally don't eat anything for anywhere from 45 mins to 1.5 hrs after I finish my actual workout (some studies have shown this is actually beneficial to Growth Hormone and Testosterone production, but that's not the reason why I do that, it's mostly because I need to shower and rush to work before I eat). For my longer rides, I take in a LOT LESS calories than you do. I have tried UCAN and it really works for some people, but I personally didn't love the chalky taste. I've gone back to some sugar as I'll take two (1 hr) ~270 calorie bottles of Infinit with me (but this will last me a 4.5 hr ride). I also take a couple lara bars (I prefer Blueberry) and a couple of Kind Bars (I prefer the Nuts & Spices Dark Chocolate nuts & Sea Salt) . Sometimes if I'm doing an afternoon ride, I mix a packet of Skratch Labs powder into one of my water bottles for electrolytes and I might take a lara bar with me if it'll be longer than 2 hrs. So to summarize that, my typical "4 hr" ride I will drink nearly a full bottle of water before I leave my house (basically my spare water bottle in my belly). About an hour or 1:15 into my ride I'll start sipping on one of the Infinit Bottles and supplementing thirst with water. About 1.5-2 hrs into the ride I'll eat my first bar and will have another roughly every hour. So in total I'll usually get through 1.5-2 bottles of the Infinit (~500 total calories) and another 2-3 bars (400-600 Calories depending on whether I do 2 or 3). So a grand total of ~1,000 calories for ~4.5 hrs. If I run afterwards, I'll just drink another 1/2 a bottle of water and then just head out for another 30 mins or so, then will eat after I finish.
Now keep in mind that my body is pretty much "fat adapted" at this point so I simply don't need as many calories as people who's body only know how to burn "blood sugar". For me, the sugar I take in is just a supplement to my own body fat and I would guess is entirely burned off during my workout so I don't get the post workout malaise/inflammation that you are experiencing. I've never "Bonked" with this protocol, but it takes many many months for your mind and body to adapt to this approach. To be VERY CLEAR, I am not purposely going into a calorie deficit for weight loss purposes. I eat a MASSIVE amount of food after my workouts and pretty much all day, but it's not "sugar and carbs"... My post workout meal is usually a massive omelet with tons of vegetables and bacon and cheese and an avocado...
Now on to something else you mentioned. I used to believe (and many people still do believe this) that "Calories In" minus "Calories Out" equals a "calorie deficit" or "calorie surplus" which leads to either weight loss or weight gain. I do NOT believe that anymore. Calories are certainly important and keeping track of them is a valuable tool to use (as a brute force hammer). But all calories are NOT created equal. Different types of calories have a different metabolic effect on your body. So some types of foods (and their accompanied calories) signal your body to store them as fat and other types of foods (and their associated calories) signal your body to burn more energy or to burn more fat. So nuts and avocados (and even butter) get a bad rap because they have a ton of calories (many from fat), but they are very good for your body (and are very low on the glycemic index). While something as simple as a piece of white bread will be immediately converted to sugar in your body/blood, cause an insulin spike, and potentially be stored as fat. There are ~529 "calories" in a cup of almonds and ~234 "calories" in an avocado. So eating a snack of a half a cup of almonds and an avocado will net you ~500 calories and 44g of fat. You'll get the same amount of calories and only 6g of fat by eating ~6.5 pieces of white bread... If you're not currently exercising, which of those two snacks is more likely to cause your body to store some of those calories as body fat? I would argue the 6.5 slices of bread and their blood sugar increase and accompanied insulin spike is more likely to be stored as fat or at a minimum slightly inhibit fat loss (especially because you'll shortly be starving again after the crash and likely take in more food)... I think we'd all agree that a glass of ice water "technically speaking" contains exactly 0 calories, right? But isn't a calorie defined as the amount of energy required to raise the temperature of 1 gram of water by 1 degree Celsius? Well you're an engineer... Calculate how many calories it will take your body to raise say 16 oz (~454g) of ~1 Degree Celsius Ice water to your normal body temperature of ~37 degrees C. (Hint, it's more than 0...). Just because something has 0 calories doesn't mean it has no caloric deficit/surplus effect on your body...
I'm getting a little long winded here, but I'll summarize by saying that yes, dumping massive amounts of sugar into your body will work for "some" people, but not "all people". There ARE other ways to successfully do it, but you must be in tune with your body, listen to it, and adjust accordingly. I take in a lot more sugar now during training/racing than I thought I would had you asked me 2 yrs ago, but still a LOT less than others (i.e. Coach P).
Ironman Race Day: Using on course nutrition makes the Ironman day logistically "easier". But well less than half of people racing Ironman actually do that... I will take my same bottle of Infinit for the race that I do in training (and in several previous races, had another bottle waiting for me in Bike Special Needs roughly halfway through the bike). I personally take water off the course and will also grab the Gatorade as well. If Gatorade doesn't work for you, then carry more of what does work for you and leave enough more in your special needs bag. I also wear a bike jersey for IM races (mostly for sun protection on my shoulders) and I will keep 4-5 lara bars and kind bars in the back pockets. I'll eat "roughly" 1 every hour. Many people find it more efficient to get all of their calories in through their fluids. Personally, I find that I'd rather have something solid with "real ingredients" in my belly and I have found that I digest them just fine (especially since most fluid calories are from some form of sugar). Again, every person is unique. I know a lot of people who have gotten stomach pains/distress during the run from messing up their nutrition on the bike. Some were because of too much sugar sloshing in their gut, others were from undigested solid food in their gut. You need to figure out which you are. Rarely (if ever) does someone bonk on an Ironman run from not having enough calories. On the run, there is an infinit supply of calories each and every mile if you ever get light.
You still have plenty of time to adjust and learn what works for you before your race. But don't be afraid to experiment and see how you feel by trying something "different".
Caveat: I'm certainly no sports nutritionist and I may have a rather simple understanding of the solutions to improving body composition. But, in my experience, it really just follows the laws of thermodynamics, which is a fancy way of saying that if you take out/burn more energy in a system than you put into that system, you create a deficit, which is satisfied by burning excess fat and, over time, you'll lose weight.
Of course, two sides of the equation: calories in and calories out.
Calories In: when I'm super, super on my game I weigh and measure everything until I "know" what x ounces of y looks like and I don't have to measure "everything." And if I don't know the weightorwhatever of something I'll bump up my estimate of the calorie content.
Calories out: I use a Garmin and power or pace for everything I'm good about keeping the weight entered in my running GPS current so, hopefully, the calorie numbers I get are accurate. Swimming seems to be a crap shoot and I think the Garmin overestimates my calories burned for the swim.
The remaining variable, which is clearly where most of the variability in results with this calorie counting method lies, is in estimating your personal metabolic rate. My experience with LoseIt! and MyFitnessPal is that these apps do a "good enough" estimate of my metabolic rate. I only say this because when I set it up to have me lose ~1-1.5lb/wk and I track EVERYTHING, I get leaner. It works for me. But if you're body is different (significantly?) than whatever method these apps are using, then it makes sense to do some metabolic testing to (1) determine what your metabolic rate is and (2) set _that_ into these apps and then track everything.
Finally, I also separate / view differently my race/training nutrition and everyday nutrition. I generally:
These days my only training events that are long enough to require a nutrition plan are my long rides on the weekends. For these I'm Gatorade Endurance, gels, shot blocks, and I'm dialing in my training/racing nutrition plan that I honed last year. Specifically, I know what calories, sodium, and fluid per hour I need to take in, how hours 1-3 are different, for me, than 4-5, etc. But I don't want/need "clean" calories for these rides. I'm eating for performance and utility, that's it. I get back on my body comp, clean eating game after I've finished the ride and had a good, high carb meal to restore my glycogen stores.
Finally, in observation about Paleo: yes, early man eat lots of lean meat, fruits, veg, and very few/no grains and of course no processed food. But he also wasn't running for 45', jumping on a bike to ride 5-6hrs, then doing it again the next day. IOW, the demands of endurance training, in my experience, require you to bounce outside of the strict boundaries of paleo eating so that you can quickly restore your glycogen after exercise and properly fuel yourself during exercise.
Like John, I've abandoned the blocks, gels and gatorade during training and will only use some gatorade to make certain portions of my race day nutrition plan more convenient. I bought and use the Feed Zone Portables cookbook and now use those recipes as my race day food. I make different rice cakes (Peanut butter and jelly, eggs and salt, apples and cinnamon, blueberry/raspberry etc.) and use the transitions/special needs to restock (eat 1 running to the bike, 2 others in my pocket & restock with 2 more at bike special needs). I use the Skratch labs hydration to start the bike and have 2 bottles in special needs. With this combination of solid, easily digestible food I have found much more consistent energy during races and no upset stomach which keeps me from eating/drinking. For training, it's usually water only for anything under 2 hours. Over 2 hours, then I'll either use Skratch or Nuun and eat bars (Lara, Cliff, Granola) all depending on my mood. Post ride nutrition is usually eggs with peanut butter (sometimes with rice), although I've started trying Vega Sport Accelerator over the past 2 weeks. I like the Vega Sport protein products, so I thought I'd see how this works as a low calorie recovery drink.
Overall, I try to eat healthy with lots of fruits, vegetables, brown rice, eggs and quinoa. My wife has really liked and followed the ideas contained in a book called The Abascal Way, which talks about how foods can be inflammatory agents in our body (much like JW referred to in his post regarding sugar). When I'm focused on diet and use these principles, then I do lose weight, but even when weight loss stays the same I see changes in how my body looks (less puffy, more muscle definition, etc.).
Continue to experiment with different ways of fueling your body during workouts. You will find what works for you.
I am so glad to hear you say "calories in" vs. "calories burned" do not always lead to gain or loss. I am a walking testament to that logic ... What's new, I am atypical. As for race day I will adjust and plan to bring my own products ... I am not "racing" per se except to finish so carrying a bit more sustenance with me to make sure I cross the finish line will be ok with me.
For the first time this weekend I mentally pushed through the "mental barrier" and believe this will be achieved vs. fear and doubt to that point. I will get on the OS plan and race next year!
Thanks for all the insight! Good luck in your season ... Hope to meet you at some point.
Marc
Looking forward to my mock race in a couple of weeks as a true test of the nutrition plan that I arrive at before that point.
Thanks for hanging in there with me .... I appreciate all your input.
See you at IMLP.
Marc
Many thanks.
Marc