Racing flats

Douglas Sutherland

Just watched the week 17 video, and Coach P through out a comment about getting some nearing flats now, to get some miles in 3-4 weeks before the race. I assume a race flat is a minimalist type shoe that weighs less and therefore is faster. This seems to make a lot of sense of short track stuff. There seems to be more thick, Hoka or Hoka-like shoes on race day. Putting aside the question of the ideal timing to switch into a flat, more basically, how much is to gain from this move? What factors predict success with a flat. Or am I missing another point?

thekidduxc

Doug, IMO racing flats are more for 5K/10K/half marathon. We wore racing flats in college on courses which did not allow spikes.

For us it was more of a mental edge. Yes they are lighter, but I prefer a more durable cushioning shoe over the course of a marathon v a light weight fast shoe. That line of thinking is only enforced when we find ourselves at the starting line of a marathon with compromised form after riding 180K and swimming 4K.

John Withrow

I race in my Hoka Clifton 2's, but do much of my training in the heavier Stinsons or Bondis. The Cliftons are every bit as light as most proper racing "flats", but still provide me most of the Hoka-like cushion (which my legs appreciate deep into the run). If you're REALLY trying to go FAST, the lighter the shoe the better for race day...

Al Truscott

Posted By Doug Sutherland on 30 Jun 2016 11:27 PM

Just watched the week 17 video, and Coach P through out a comment about getting some nearing flats now, to get some miles in 3-4 weeks before the race. I assume a race flat is a minimalist type shoe that weighs less and therefore is faster. This seems to make a lot of sense of short track stuff. There seems to be more thick, Hoka or Hoka-like shoes on race day. Putting aside the question of the ideal timing to switch into a flat, more basically, how much is to gain from this move? What factors predict success with a flat. Or am I missing another point?

Here's some data from Jack Daniels which may help you think this thru:

http://runsmartproject.com/coaching/2012/02/06/how-much-does-shoe-weight-affect-performance/

Here's my opinion, based on personal experience and observation. I go faster in lighter shoes @ same RPE&HR. Maybe 5-10 seconds per mile per ounce. The lighter you are and the shallower your vertical oscillation, the less cushioning you need. I do just fine in IM marathons with 5-6 oz Saucony Type A6 'flats'. YMMV depending on your weight and how much you bob up and down.

Satish Punna

I believe our feet have built in cushioning which is adequate for most of us.  I don't think it's clear at all what the real measurable benefits of added cushioning is.  It is probably very personal.  I know I have flexible feet so I need flexible shoes, which pretty much precludes all the heavily cushioned shoes. I actually prefer the low to the ground feel in my shoes, and I'm also fairly light so that helps.  I do most of my training in NB 1400 (not really a racing flat since there is a 10mm drop, but very light) and some in NB 1500 which have a little more (maybe too much) support and cushioning but only a 6mm drop.  I have raced my HIM's in the 1400s with no problems. I have been wondering what to wear for the IM but I think I will probably go with the 1400s- or the 1500s if I get nervous about 'needing' more support later in the race.  

It's probably very important however to spend time training in the shoes you are going to race in, and probably more so if they are radically different than what you are used to.  I think you would want to take your time transitioning to racing flats as well.  

edit- I just realized I didn't answer your question at all- feel free to ignore my comment and move on! 

Bonowrangler

Hi Doug. I strained my achilles tendon in the hard miles leading up to Wildflower 70.3on 4/29. I love my flats. I train in Brooks pure connect with 0 drop and race in brooks T7 racers and NB1400 (also use those ninja elastic laces for the fastest transitions in my AG most races ;-) After Wildflower I rehabbed my achilles and got some Hoka Clifton 2's. I really didn't want to like them because they looked so bad. The first time I wore them I liked them. I've been training in them all month. I will probably race in them mainly bc, for me, they keep my strike flat where as my flats put me on my forefoot which puts strain on my achilles. For me it will be better to keep my stride short and flat for IMCA. I can still get up on my toes when I need to but it takes more of a conscious effort.
I think coach just through that comment out there. I don't really see people "changing" to flats. Maybe if you have a history of racing in them you should get a new pair bc they wear faster than thick soles.

Paul Hough

Marathon racing flats should have more cushion than a racing flat built for 5-10Ks or even for a half marathon. When I was in my 20s and running marathons around 2:30 I could/would wear a true racing flat. No longer. Now I need more cushioning or I'm going to pound myself into the ground. Basically you are looking for a lightweight training shoe.

I picked up a pair of HOKA Claytons a few weeks ago that I intended to use at Switzerland but I'm getting a hot spot on my right foot after 5 miles on some runs. So I just bought a pair of Nike Zoom Elite 8s when I was at the Nike Company Store ($58!) earlier this week, which I'm going to break in the next two weeks. It will be one or the other.

Trish Marshall

I know Mike Roberts runs sockless a few times in his chosen race shoes prior to IM just to "toughen" up his feet to the rigors of and IM marathon. Perhaps choosing racing flats is similar? Less cush and more feel of the road? Just a thought...

Satish Punna

" What factors predict success with a flat"

I asked a good friend of mine and a former nationally ranked top marathoner how to pick a pair of marathon shoes.  His advice was run 20 miles and if your legs feel  like you can do 10 more, the shoes are good.  Well I don't do any 20 mile training runs, but I used this method to confirm my current IM shoe- I tried the lightest weight shoe I could find that still had some cushioning for long runs and runs off the bike.  

I settled on a pair of 'ON Clouds'.  I really like these shoes.  

Mike Westover

Some good reviews here if you want to maximize cushioning vs. weight: http://fellrnr.com/wiki/Shoes

I'm taking a look at the New Balance RC5000v2 and it is amazing how light they are.