How to replace 4 lbs/hr of fluid loss on run?

Chad Scott

So for the last 2 IM I have blown up pretty bad on the run and I know that there are many factors that I"m currently documenting and testing but one thing is this 4 lbs/hr I loose on a typical long run. First note that the blowing is probably more of a reflection of my HR on the run but that's another topic....

I have about (5) 2hr+ runs that support this 4lbs/hr  that I've figured out and tested over last 2 months. The Temp should be around what the run portion of IMCHOO will be as I run really early. On these runs I"m getting my prescribed calories of about 250/hr with 24oz and a gel per hour but I"m worried that loosing an additional 3 lbs of fluid per hour (4 hr marathon) that I don't think I can stomach to replace. I don't think I can stomach on the run much more then 24oz/hr but I"m certainly going to try. Does anyone have this same issue or do you worry about this at all on the run as I know I'm replacing ALL of my fluid on the bike so I hope to hit run topped off.

Scott Giljum

That is why you need to come off the bike topped off, having peed at least twice to make sure you are well hydrated. You will lose some fluid through the run, but drinking Gatorade and then coke when you can't stomach anything else has worked for me, and prolific sweater is too nice to describe what I do when it comes to perspiration. As I am sure you have heard plenty, the bike sets up the run.

Also you mention HR. Proper management of HR will likely help a bit as well.

Peter Noyes

My strategy on the IM run is to drink both water and Gatorade on the run. I would have a full cup of each at every aid station. This doubles your fluid intake without changing your calories.

Gordon Cherwoniak

Chad,

As mentioned be diligent on the bike to ensure you come in to the run topped up.  Have you tried more liquid on the 5 runs you have been doing?   Giving up 3lbs a hour is a lot and you will most likely need to find the outer edge that your stomach can handle.  I'd also argue that you HR could be part of this discussion.  If it's an issue of pushing to hard and blowing up taking on more liquid will cause further problems for your IM run.  Now if you can't get you HR up late in the run probably a different discussion.

Anyway one thought might be to try to replace the gel with liquid/Gatorade.  Many say they can't stomach the calories or gatorade on the run after the bike so not sure this is a good option for you.  It might be good to get a better breakdown of how you are fueling the run, every mile how many ounces.  Are you simulating the aid stations and only drinking every 9,10,11 minutes based on your long run speed or just drinking from a bottle whenever?  Perhaps a fuel belt for the run would allow you to get in liquid every 1/2 mile to help space out the intake a little more.

 

Chad Scott

Gordon, I have tried and had a little success with about 1.5 bottles on some training runs but I know historically in the 6 IM's I've done that about 24oz/hr is all I can handle after 48oz/hr on the bike for 6 hours. This time I'm switching some things up and using only what is on the course so that means Gat for the bike and Gat/gel and coke/water for the run. I plan for the run this time to carry my running bottle of 24oz (never raced with this) and I can start out with proform for first bottle to switch it up (doing same on bike). I feel little sips continuously allows me to get more in then a 4oz chug every mile. So depending on how much Gatorade I'm able to take in I will supplement a gel to make up the calories if I need. I was hoping to keep to this for first half of the run and then switch to coke/water on the back half if I need to. I do know that most of my blowing up is due to my heart rate and pacing structure in the past (run to pace and not HR) but since I've been monitor/analyzing everything I found out just how much I sweat on the run and I was shocked. My goal is under 4 hour Marathon so I was wondering if its possible to loose 3 lbs per hour and still be able to hold a steady HR throughout or is that just too much and I need to figure out a way to get some more fluids down?
Thanks for all the tips guys!

Rich Stanbaugh

Chad - I've been doing a lot of hot runs this summer and experimenting with different drink mixes / concentrations. What I've found is that the hotter it is, I have to be really carful with concentrations. On a typical run, I will have about 100 cal/ 20 oz of drink. As the temperatures go up, driving the fluid needs up, I reduce the concentration. The overall calorie content stays roughly the same (maybe a little lower), but I get the additional fluids by diluting the drinks. I think this is pretty much in line with what Peter is doing by adding a cup of water.

If you get too many calories in your stomach (by trying to increase sports drink consumption without diluting), it will cause you to dehydrate. The osmosis process in your guts will cause water to move from your body back into your digestive system. The key is to increase the fluids without increasing the calories.

Coach Rich

I have a similar sweat rate, experienced again this morning while running in SoCal: a relatively cool, dry morning and I finish the run looking like I just got out of the pool. As others have said:

• Drink a LOT on the bike. And you need (or, at least I know I need to) separate calories from fluid from sodium, meaning I drink a lot of water and get calories from gels and chews, and I view Gatorade Endurance more like an extended length salt tab. Then on the run I drink a lot of water, coke, some Gatorade, and get calories from gels.
• Get used to and train yourself to run on a full stomach: before every run in the summer I'll drink most of a 32oz bottle of water before starting my run. I then carry a 20oz bottle, drink that in the 1st 30' and hit water fountains about every 3 miles to refill. Over time I've trained myself to be able to run with a stomach full of fluid, basically treating it like a second water bottle and filling it at every water stop. 

FYI, I was just in Atlanta, passing through on the front and back end of my IMChat camp. Crazy, crazy humid...ugg...

Chad Scott

......Rich, I like the idea of diluting the drink. I'm going to try ASAP and see if my stomach likes the less sugar. I think this could really be useful for me.
.....Coach Rich, the one big change I made this year was no water on the bike and only drink calories as I felt like I was on a roller-coaster during my race. That might be blood/sugar related so I was trying to level that off with only drinking Gat and using that for my sodium/calories/and fluid on the bike. I will also eat half cliff bar/hr for some solids on bike. I truthfully think that on the run I will end up drinking water more because I'm sick of the Gat and getting my calories from gels. I'm just glad to see that there are others out there that actually sweat as bad as me, its oddly comforting! I'm going to use your suggestion and start my runs with a full stomach and then start trying to cram more down it during the run. I have the option (it sucks) to loop my neighborhood and pick up a bottle every 30 min. I will try and start pushing my stomach to see if it will hold more for me? Thanks for all the suggestions.

Coach Rich

Sounds good. I know where all of the parks and water fountains are within a 4-5 mile radius of my house and then just run from fountain to fountain refilling my bottle each time. And like I said, I also drink a full bottle of water at each stop before refilling it and carrying on. It's the only way I can even begin to get close to staying on top of my hydration requirements.

Rich Stanbaugh

Good luck Chad. The key is - if you need 100 cal / hr, you still need 100 cal/hr... just spread the 100 cal over two bottles (or whatever) instead of 1.

Brent Bills

Chad, I am a heavy sweater also. When running I drink 16 oz every 3 miles. I drink 1/3 every mile to simulate the race conditions. It took me several months for my stomach to adjust, but I found it helped my stomach take more longer. Under advisement from Coach P and my Dr. I stopped drinking water on the bike and the run, and tried to get my calories on the run from Gat as much as possible. As stated above, I come into the run very hydrated, drinking 36-44 oz per aid station on the bike. On long runs I finish 2-3 pounds light, and that hasn't seemed to slow me down, I usually run a negative split.