Home› General Training Discussions

Death to interval training?

Comments

  • Brian HaganBrian Hagan

    I think this discussion has been going on for years, and will continue for many more.

  • Coach RichCoach Rich

    " The available evidence suggests that combining large volumes of low-intensity training with careful use of high-intensity interval training throughout the annual training cycle is the best-practice model for development of endurance performance."

    Of course a lot depends on how you define high and low intensities but I don't think this sounds much different from what we do here, when you consider that on the bike, for example, we scheduled ~30-40' of total Z4-5 time across the typical 7-10hr IM cycling week. 

    For me, it helps to consider that my body is lazy and will only adapt itself to the training stress I place upon it. So my job is to impart the stress on it that's appropriate for it right now. The variables I have available to create this stress are frequency, volume, and intensity. 

    Frequency is relatively fixed, volume can be moderately flexible, but intensity is infinitely variable. So if I have relatively little training time available, then I increase intensity to impart to my body the training stress it needs (ie, more than last week, for example) to continue the adaptation process. If I have more time available the intensity naturally drops but the training stress continues to dial itself up, encouraging more adaptations.

    The net is that, over time, the more work you do the more work you can do. Last summer I was amazed at just how much work I could do and continue to absorb as a result of consistently dialing up the training stress week after week for months and months. 

  • Shaughn SimmonsShaughn Simmons

    Very pleased with the way our current training plans do just this from your attached article:

    ".......but the evidence does suggest that short intense training bouts and longer continuous exercise sessions should both be a part of effective endurance training."

    I think the current plans do a great job of balancing the intensity with the endurance sessions required to developed an effective fitness engine for long course racing.........if I could just keep up with them......

    SS

  • Mike RobertsMike Roberts

    Interesting topic, DS.  

    My take: even though the coaches (correctly) warn us not to compare or attempt to emulate pro IM training, I’m sure a lot of us could gain a ton of fitness by following some of their habits.  Most of them spend a TON of time in Z1, but that’s because they have to for survival given their volume load. 

    For fun, I looked up Ben Hoffman on Strava.  Yesterday he rode 20 miles at 128 watts (maybe 30% IF?) and ran 11.5 miles at 8:09 pace (he’s probably a 70 vDOT, so that' like Zone 0.2), and Tuesday he rode 68 miles at a whopping 183 watts (I rode an hour this morning at 190 watts).  Huh?  Well, he can get away with what appears to be junk miles because of his huge volume.  Over the last 4 weeks, he averaged 6 rides per week,  19hrs of saddle time, 364 miles.  He ran 6 times and 59.7 miles per week, for more than 7 hours.  He doesn’t load swims onto Strava, but you know he’s swimming 8-10 hours every week.  So, short story, if you want to spend most of your time at very low intensity, try and find 30-36 hours per week to train.  If you can only squeeze in half of that like we do, adding in some intensity makes sense.  At least to me.

  • Coach RichCoach Rich
    What Mike said, exactly. Anyone can get faster on 25-30+ hrs of training, including 19hrs of saddle time...and 59.7 miles of running per week. But the time commitment is simply too much for 100% of us reading this post.

    Bottomline is that effectively managing the intensity of largely fixed frequency and volume is the preferred method for age group triathletes.
  • robin sarnerrobin sarner

    I would like EN to develop shorter and more intense IM plans.       not quite what the Minimalist is doing.      something even pointy end folks would find useful.      maybe for the time crunched person or the poor recoverer.              

    something like long bikes caped at 4 hours with NP 10-20 watts above race goal.          long runs caped at 16 miles with average pace 30 seconds better than race goal.    etc.

  • Al TruscottAl Truscott

    Posted By Coach Rich on 18 Aug 2016 09:06 AM

    ...The net is that, over time, the more work you do the more work you can do. Last summer I was amazed at just how much work I could do and continue to absorb as a result of consistently dialing up the training stress week after week for months and months. 

    Most of the time, I consider myself to be "training to train". The only time I'm not is weeks 6 >> 4 before an A race.

    Also I'm slowly learning that recovery means something different to me @ 67 than it did @ 52. I have to be VERY judicious with my use of higher intensity efforts. At the far end of the age spectrum, it takes longer to build up to those final four weeks. I still remember a conversation I had on after an IM in 2011, with the guy I'd just beat. When I told him I was working half time, he said, "I should do that - then I'd have more time to train." Me: "No, now I have more time to recover." Five years later, I'm realizing I could no longer do IMs if I was still working.

  • Douglas SutherlandDouglas Sutherland
    Great comments. EN definitely gets us faster utilizing intervals on shorter periods of total training time, and I can't imagine a worse/more boring work-out plan to puts me into 30 hours of z1 and 6 of z3-5. I do not envy the pro life! That being said, interval-method, IMO, increase our risk of injuries. What we do have in common with the pros: we both "need to survive" the training stress. And most (not all?) of us ENers accrue daily "stress" unrelated to exercise that our body needs to absorb. If anything, I would bet the active pro has to manage a good deal less than the busy parent with full time job and is load into one of our IM training plans, esp on week 18! (Not sure I have slept 10-12 hours in one day in about 15 years image

    In other words, is it possible that "work hard, get smart, get fast" increases our risk of injury compared to there z1 zombies? I think so. That is the trade off for "going fast", and maybe why several of our experienced EN athletes transition to self-made plans that look more pro-like as they evolve over their triathlon career.

    I think my remaining question at this point is not the relationship between interval training and injury risk, rather, I wonder what happens to the amateur who locks into a Z1 heavy plan over several years. Assuming this theoretical athlete abide by the pro plan on 15 hours per week. Would this athlete get faster over a 5 year experience? As fast as an ENer, who I believe would get faster on a shorter timeline.

    DS
  • Coach RichCoach Rich

    Posted By Doug Sutherland on 19 Aug 2016 08:41 AM


    Great comments. EN definitely gets us faster utilizing intervals on shorter periods of total training time, and I can't imagine a worse/more boring work-out plan to puts me into 30 hours of z1 and 6 of z3-5. I do not envy the pro life! That being said, interval-method, IMO, increase our risk of injuries. What we do have in common with the pros: we both "need to survive" the training stress. And most (not all?) of us ENers accrue daily "stress" unrelated to exercise that our body needs to absorb. If anything, I would bet the active pro has to manage a good deal less than the busy parent with full time job and is load into one of our IM training plans, esp on week 18! (Not sure I have slept 10-12 hours in one day in about 15 years



    In other words, is it possible that "work hard, get smart, get fast" increases our risk of injury compared to there z1 zombies? I think so. That is the trade off for "going fast", and maybe why several of our experienced EN athletes transition to self-made plans that look more pro-like as they evolve over their triathlon career. Rather than experienced, I say you're talking about the cadre of EN athletes who've truly turned their Ironman interest into an integral part of their lifestyle. The folks, like me, who have a life dials in that allows them to train nearly as much as they want, when they want (within reason), and they've developed a base of endurance fitness over years of consistency. 



    I think my remaining question at this point is not the relationship between interval training and injury risk, rather, I wonder what happens to the amateur who locks into a Z1 heavy plan over several years. Assuming this theoretical athlete abide by the pro plan on 15 hours per week. Would this athlete get faster over a 5 year experience? As fast as an ENer, who I believe would get faster on a shorter timeline. I would say no, as I've seen those people locally. They noodle all the time and have the times to show for it. Locally, there is a significant difference between EN-alumni and others, that you see at the top of the hard climb, within a long run, etc. EN alumuns are tongues in the spokes shagged. Others are chatting and times reflect this. 



    DS

  • Paul CurtinPaul Curtin
    The challenge is to not only find the time to complete the EN workouts (16-24 hours during an IM build), but to do so without breaking down. I need more recovery (age 54), and I’ve found zone 1 work can be helpful.

    Robin sent me his training log, and it’s quite impressive how he KQ’d on a much lower-volume build (10-15 hours with two 18-hour weeks). His training was actually closer to the EN Minimalist plan.

    I could back the volume down, but I’m trying to push through to that next level. And that’s the issue: I’m going into a killer weekend with an already high negative TSB. There’s no way I can absorb the stress from 7 x 25’ Z3 Saturday followed by a Sunday ABP ride.

    That’s where Z1 work comes in – it’s my fallback plan when overloaded. I need the saddle time, so Ill start tomorrow’s ride at “stoopid slow” pace. Hopefully after an hour I’ll know whether to stop the workout, try to push into Z2, or just continue stoopid slow.

    There’s no way I’m giving up interval training – it’s too valuable. It’s a matter of finding the right balance to get through an IM build.
Sign In or Register to comment.