William "Skip" Crawford's micro thread
Coach P,
As we discussed, I raced IMLP and had a rough run. I was a DNF at IMMT due to not having the proper clothing on the bike and getting too cold to control it. I am racing IMMD on October 1st and want to try to improve my run. I run a 3:25 stand alone marathon, but have ended up in the 5 hour range for all but one of my IM races. The lone exception was IMMD in 2014 where I ran around a 4:30. I tend to get sick somewhere between mile 3 and 6 of the IM run and end up walk/running the rest of the marathon. I am not killing the bike and destroying my run. If anything, I tend to ride below where the numbers say I should ride for an IM.
As for nutrition, I started IM using Hammer products. They do not work for me. I switched to Infinit and it works fine for the bike and in my RR, but I cannot get through the run. At your suggestion last year, I tried to use the on course nutrition. Again, it did not work. I toyed with Skratch for a half IM, but have not used it for a full IM.
This year I am using UCAN. I have not been able to determine if it will be a long term solution, but I would like it to work.
According to my sweat test, I need 40 ounces of liquid per hour on a hot day. I assume every race will be a hot day as I tend to sweat a lot (the exception being IMMT this year when I would have given almost anything to be able to be warm enough to sweat).
My nutrition plan calls for 20 ounces of UCAN one hour pre-race. I then drink Skratch Hyper Hydration 15-30 minutes before race start. I have 60 ounces of UCAN on my bike (enough nutrition for 3 hours). The plan it to drink 20 ounces of UCAN per hour and to drink water at each of the water stations. I then re-fill the UCAN at bike special needs and continue to drink 20 ounces per hour with water at each aid station. If I get hungry for solid food, I will eat a honey stinger waffle. At IMLP, I ate one honey stinger on the first loop and another one on the second loop.
The plan is to drink another Skratch Hyper Hydration at T2. However, at IMLP, the bottle with the Hyper Hydration was so warm, I could not get it down.
The plan for the run is water/coke at every water stop. For a stand alone marathon, I take three to four gels depending on the weather. I carry four gels on me for an IM run, but have not yet had a race where I thought I could keep one down. When I cannot take a gel, I stick with Coke and Base salt. I will supplement with water and chicken broth. At IMMD in 2014, the coke revived me and I was able to run the majority of the marathon after walking approximately three miles.
I am 5'9" and currently weigh 155. I normally race between 148 and 150, but have not been as disciplined this year and have not reached race weight.
For IMMT, I was going to follow the same plan, but I put an ice pack in my T2 bag to keep the Hyper Hydration cold. It is about the only thing that worked that day as when I picked up my run bag, the bottle was still cold.
What are your recommendations for nutrition and for my training between now and MD to try and improve my run. I recognize not much can be done at this point, but I would like to see some improvement to end the year.
Thank you.
Comments
thanks for making this post. As we discussed, the window is pretty tight to do anything fitness wise. But we should be able to tap into some of the marathon stuff for you. You are right in that what you eat on the bike and how to pace the bike determines how voluble run. It's strange to me that your stomach shuts down within the first hour of running. To me that says it's not necessarily the one nutritionist the problem but trying to run with what you done on the bike
As I mentioned, for me my experience with InfinIT was that I got in great calories but I couldn't absorb them when it came time to running. but that didn't hit me until mile 18.
Can you please post some of the public links from those previous races on Strava or Garmin Connect here so I can review them?
My current concern with your nutrition plan is a bottle of food and a bottle of water. That may work in training but on race day historically those two different elements don't come together in the same way. Do you have salt or something else to supplement that water so it doesn't back up in your stomach? Or at least let me know what your plan is for that.
For the run, Coke and water is not the best option. Can you eat the Gatorade chews or the cliff blox? it is definitely in your interest to find a way to get calories, and probably some caffeine, into your system early on the run. There's just no way you can run an under fueled marathon at the end of an Ironman. you can go light on the calories in a regular marathon but not here. I would suggest you plan on having a banana in T2 as that will be palatable and easy to fit into your plan. But we do need to solve the rest.
Get me those files and let me know what you think about fuel.
I do not like bananas, but am willing to try some other form of solid food. I have eaten a peanut butter and jelly sandwich at bike special needs in the past.
I like the Cliff blocks and can try them on the run.
IMLP bike file: https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/1273430586
IMLP run file: https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/1273391540
2015 IMMT bike file: https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/868660413
2015 IMMT run file: https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/868663178
2014 IMMD bike file: https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/595179442
2014 IMMD run file: https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/595179450
Thank you for reviewing and providing input.
1. Thanks for the data!
2. 1700 mg of sodium before the race isn't as important as 600-1000 mgs of salt PER HOUR on the bike. Please do the math adding UCAN sodium to the Citrilyte to see what you get per hour. You might need to supplement with a salt pill...
3. I suggest you have some food in the event you get hungry; hours 4-5 are hardest on the bike and caffeine (gel?) or good food (1/2 powerbar?) could lift you up. Worth trying in training!
4. Looking at the data, I can see a few trends...
A) Hilly bike courses don't like you.
c) For the run you want to carry your bike HR into the first six miles of the run. For example at IMMT your Bike AHR was 142, but your AHR running by mile was 136, 140, 144, 148, 149, 156….and you were done from there…
Long term wise, we need to make you stronger on the bike (in the OutSeason® for sure). Nutrition will help here, but my guess is that 6.t to 7.5 hours on the bike really sets you back from the run perspective!
I did the math and added extra sodium to my UCAN for a 90 mile ride last weekend. It did not work. The extra salt made me feel sick during the last 20 miles of the ride. I could maintain my watts for the ride, but I could not have run a marathon after the ride.
We are travelling back to Cambridge this weekend. The plan is to ride 100 miles on Saturday and another 45 on Sunday. I am giving the Skratch a shot for this ride as I think it is easier for me to get the sodium and calories using Skratch and food rather than sodium added to the UCAN.
What are your thoughts on the need for a race rehearsal and 18 mile run before IMMD given I raced IMLP and was a DNF at IMMT? My runs since IMLP have been sluggish and I am a bit concerned I will run myself into a hole. On the other hand, I am afraid not to get in one last long run. I am not as concerned with a race rehearsal provided I can get my nutrition right this weekend.
https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/1339195682
https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/1339199935
I'm curious to hear what the Skratch did for you and whether or not we need to move to salt as a pill form versus just adding salt directly into the flavor of your mix. I personally prefer the pill form as you have options as to when and how much to add. If it's already premixed than if you need more salt all you can do is drink more than sometimes having it separate is better.
I took a look at your rides and not sure what's up with that first hour? There was some really aggressive riding there and the rest is steady... that too could have upset your nutrition. let me know about that, and please post your files from this past weekend.
From a run perspective, you do not need another long run. If you run is already sluggish it's not going to rebound with...more running. I would rather you continue to run consistently but keep the effort entirely within the TRP zone. My guess is your body just needs a little more time to come around.
We arrived later in the day as our oldest daughter had a cross country meet in the morning. We were only able to ride 75 miles on Saturday. We also rode 45 on Sunday.
My files are attached:
https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/1355099573
https://connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/1355099617
I will try to pay more attention to the first hour moving forward.
Thank you for all of your feedback.
Out of curiosity, how did you set your FTP? The IF of those rides seems a bit low... .60 and .62 should feel slightly harder than walking...we'd be looking for closer to .68 to .7...
I figured the rides were on the easy side, but wanted to err on the side of a little easier bike to set up a good run versus a little too hard on the bike and setting up for failure on the run.
I am very open to working on getting faster on the bike in the outseason.
~ Coach P