Patrick Marsh's - IM Newbie Micro Thread
I just put a Power Tap on my tri-bike. (Was having problems with my Vector power meter pedals, and had to return them.)
My race is coming up soon - I am doing a HIM (Toughman - Harriman, NY) on 9/18.
Should I continue my training plan as laid out, or should I squeeze in another FTP test on the power tap before the race? I just joined EN a few weeks ago, so I switched to a new EN plan the second half of August.
My priority is to treat this upcoming race as a training experience for my inugural IM attempt at IMLP 2017. Therefore, I want to focus on leaving plenty of gas in the tank for the run, rather than trying to get the fastest race possible. (If I don't do another FTP by then with the Power Tap, then I will just set my Garmin screens to look at speed, time, distance and HR. If I do an FTP before then, I will set up the screen just for Power, HR and distance.)
I have a Wahoo Kickr that I use often and plan to use heavily during the winter. My FTP is up to date on that device, however I am sure there are differences between the measurement that my Power Tap will indicate.
I consider myself a novice/beginner at longer distance triathlons, however I have spent a fair amount of time on my bike the past two years so I feel comfortable relying on HR to gauge how hard I am working on the bike.
Comments
So that means PM, HRM, etc, so we learn tons from you.
I hope the PT works better than those pedals!!!! Any lessons learned re the pedals that could help the Team?
~ Coach P
Regarding next week, I am going to recon the bike course tomorrow. It looks pretty hilly; hillier than Quassy or IMLP (almost Gran Fondo-esque) with 5.5k of ascent over 56 miles. Therefore, I plan to try to keep my legs fresh the whole way and use my small crank ring on the hills. I will track power, and keep an eye on my average but will rely on "feel". I usually do long rides at ~18 mph on rolling terrain with my tri-bike and do Olympic races at 19+. This course profile looks hillier, so I may end up shooting for 17.5 mph, which seems slow. (I did a Century in mountains of VT on a road-bike at 17.6 mph.)
Bottom line, I just want to view this race as a dress rehearsal with two goals - 1) feel fresh coming off the swim and 2) being able to finish the last three miles of the run at a decent pace.
As for the Vectors, I can post my experience. In a nutshell, it was a frustrating experience so it will be a short post. First off, you need a very specific torque wrench for the adapter, which turned into a bit of a search process. Then, it turned out my SRAM crankset was too wide for the Vector pods, so I could never get a reliable signal. Thus I had to return them. I may buy a set for road bike during the off-season because I like Garmin products and the concept of pedals that you can move to a new bike. However, the Vectors are not as convenient of a solution as advertised.
So set your limits and then do your best within those constraints to be your best. Keep me posted!
~ Coach P
Thanks Coach P.
I rode the course last week - but just ~35 miles of it. Incredibly, the map that they published on the race website is incorrect. It showed a 56-mile course that consisted of one loop of the park. Actually, you have to do two loops of 7 Lakes Drive! My Garmin 810 is getting repaired, so I used my 920xt that doesn't have mapping capabilities. So, based on the map they gave us, I set out to the turnaround spot, which according the map was ~19 miles out. However, it was actually only at mile 10 that I was supposed to turnaround. So, of course I ended up on a highway and had to figure out how to get off, etc.
Long story short, the ride is pretty hilly. The initial descent from Lake Welch has borderline hazardous condition quality asphalt. My aerobottle of course splashed everywhere. Thus, I will carry a bottle in the back, and fill the aerobottle when I hit smooth pavement on 7 Lakes Drive at mile 4. From there, we do two loops on that road - up and down a 650 elevation gain four times. Beautiful pavement and beautiful scenery for 48 miles! Steepest sustained grade is ~7%. Nothing crazy, but lots of climbing. My guess is that it will turn out to be 3.5-4k of climbing. Descents should be fun (unless it rains... which it may). After the two loops, its back up to Lake Welch on the broken asphalt. The beginning of this is pretty steep - about 6-7%, but then it levels out for the last two miles.
All in, my average wattage was 200 according to the recently added PowerTap (78% of my Kickr FTP - and it felt like the right effort). Unfortunately, I only averaged 17 mph. I blame that on being completely confused by the two turnarounds, plus there were plenty of hills, and I weigh 172 lbs...
The run course sends us back down the same way on to Lake Welch Drive. So it will be a long downhill, and then really nice rolling pavement. Then back up a sadistically steep hill to finish.
My guess is that I will finish in the 6:10-6:15 area: 45 minutes for the swim (yes, I am that slow), T1: 6 minutes, ~3:10 on the bike given the hills, the likely wet conditions, and given my desire to be able to run afterwards; T2: 4 minutes (maybe longer because I am running with lace-up Hokas) and then 2:05 for the run, at a 9:30 pace.
These are my very rough estimates. However, my real goals are to relax during the swim and try to stay slow enough on the bike so that I can run a very hilly 1/2 marathon.
I intend to keep the bike ride slow on my initial descent on the crappy pavement and then get my heart rate to stay steady in the 140 bps area. I will go into my small ring Once I get off the bike, I plan to run the first few miles at a 10 minute pace. Then try to pick it up into the 9:15-9:30 area and stop for 30 seconds for water at miles 4-9. Then, with luck, I plan to run the last four miles - up the hill and back to Lake Welch.
Oh, and for nutrition, I will eat a powerbar at each transition (2 in total), 4-5 ounces of Hammer gel from a flask during the ride and then force myself to eat a gel every three to four miles on the run. I will take salt pills for the ride and take two every thirty minutes when I drink. I will shoot to take down four bottles of liquid on the bike and drink gatorade or coke every mile between 4-9 on the run, and then hopefully make a dash for it from there. Back of the envelope, that should come out to ~1600 calories, or roughly 250 calories an hour.
Ultimately, I am viewing this as a dress rehearsal. I haven't put that much time in running or swimming this year, so I will accept how I feel during the race and "stay inside my box". Also, I have only been following a race plan for the past five weeks since I joined EN and I haven't done a long triathlon since 2012.
I'll take what I get and won't get upset.
Thanks!
Overall, it was a good race. I came out of the swim feeling fine and I balanced my bike effort well enough to hit my predicted run time. These were my two goals.
Things that went well:
- swim was 2.5 minutes faster than my other HIM in 2012 despite only swimming since June this year
- I was able to stay disciplined on the bike. There were a lot of hills and many tempting moments to chase down other riders.
- Despite a hillier than expected run, my disciplined bike ride let me run the whole 13.1 miles.
- Reconning the course last week gave me a lot of confidence about when to push and when to hold back
Setbacks that had to be overcome:
- I had to swap out vector pedals for my old power tap and my Garmin810 died three weeks before the race. The power tap worked fine but I wasn't quite sure what my FTP was versu my last test on my Wahoo Kickr. So, I rode at ~80% of that FTP and slowed down if I felt lactic acid accusations. For the GPS device, I Gerry-rigged my 920xt on my aerobottle and it worked pretty well. The Garmin watch base wouldn't fit, so I made one out of Velcro tape. The screen was small, so I just looked at mileage and average wattage, and nothing else. I received my repaired 810 on Saturday and was tempted to take everything down and put it back on but thought that might make the day stressful so I kept the Velcro rig on.
- I had some gastrointestinal issues on the run. First burping, then gas/bloating and the a trip to the port-o-potty at mile 6. Dialed back on the calorie consumption and things returned to normal. This probably cost me 90 seconds on the run.
- My front derailer has been giving me problems. My bike mechanic tightened it up a week ago but I ended up throwing my chain twice cresting hills and trying to get into the big ring. Need to figure this out... I probably lost two minutes because of this but I fought the temptation to ride harder to catch up because I worried about the run.
- my socks got wet in transition and now I am enjoying four big blisters. The rain came earlier than the forecasts predicted at 5 am, and I left my socks on top of my running shoes. Of course they were my plush cushioned socks, so they held lots of moisture. I missed an opportunity to address this when I put both my shoes and socks ON TOP OF the plastic bag I used to pack them in my bag... Next time I will wear thinner socks if rain is in the forecast. Also, if I bring plastic bags and there is a chance of rain, then I will keep things inside the plastic bags...
Overall, I was pleased with my race and thought it was great learning experience to prepare me for my inaugural IM at Lake Placid in 2017
The fact you were that close to what you estimated shows you are on top of your game. Well done, sir!!! It's no small feat to get that type of race done (hilly bike!) and you not only managed it, you ran the 13.1. If you run close to a 4:15 at LP that's very competitive!
Color me impressed...a great way to wrap the year.
Now make a list so you get those above items fixed before you forget. I would add a speedfil A2 to your winter shopping list, hard close top = no splashing.
For now it's time to recover and plan ahead for next year..when you get a chance, let's talk about some goals for the winter!!!
Again, nicely done!!!
~ Coach P
I took my week-14 NOS FTP test this morning. The score went down. I am very disappointed, as I only missed one workout in the past six weeks (due to work travel) and thought I had been making a lot of progress. I recognize that my FTP is up 30 points year-over-year; however, I have been range-bound with my FTP since August.
Today's test was a 256. Week 8 it was 258. Week 1 it was 256. Today, I could probably have squeezed in a few more points - software glitch required that I do the 20-minute warm-up twice. My cadence disappeared at minute 10 during the test. I currently have a cold. Moreover, my chain kept slipping resulting in mashing into a higher gear, or spinning into a lower gear.
I would like to take the test over with a better bike on the trainer and with a new cadence meter. I have a road bike with Campy components and an S-works tri-bike that I can put on the trainer. Right now, I keep an old Alliez on the trainer so that I don't damage my outdoor bikes by moving them back and forth from the Kickr. However, the components on the Alliez are low-end.
I was planning to do a 13.1 mile time trial on Sunday. Could I re-do my FTP test on Tuesday? Alternatively, could I do my 13.1-mile TT on Saturday and give myself a few more days to rest?
These tests are awful, so I can't believe that I am seeking permission to do another one...
In the meantime I am happy to review your Strava if you're there...
~ Coach P
https://www.strava.com/athletes/738629
I did my 13.1 TT on Saturday. Ran an 8:06 pace, which made me feel better. I had a 3k VDOT of 42 at week 8, and that is where I came out with my 13.1 mile pace VDOT at week 14.
I'm fine keeping my FTP wherever you suggest. Looking back, my legs were pretty torched from the extra running, however I probably should have just aborted the test after the software crash.
Thanks Coach P.
The NE weather will soon enable me to get outside on my bike consistently. I need to calibrate my power on my tri-bike's powertap.
All winter I have been using my Wahoo Kickr. I suspect the FTP power metric is going to be 10% different and I don't want to blow myself up during race season by misjudging how hard I can work on the bike.
Right now I am in the Get Faster training block and will be loading a HIM training block in April. When should I take a new FTP test using my tri-bike/powertap combo on a fluid trainer?
Do me a favor and don't do that test. Because indoors, on the tri bike will still be less than you on that same tri bike outdoors. So the test won't actually give you what you want (anyone else hearing the Rolling Stones???).
I think your best bet is to ride it out in GF, but once you are outside we have you ride for power. You'll need 4 to 6 rides to wrap your head around the numbers you are seeing outside, at which point you should be able to predict what your true effort should be for when you DO test.
So ride now. Go outside, ride more. Call it two weeks...then we test!!!
~ Coach P
So then, I have two questions:
First question: How I should test in early April - an outside TT during a Saturday ride?
I should be able to start riding outdoors by March 18th (this weekend it will be in the teens at dawn - I am soft and draw the line at 20 degrees because my feet get too cold on long rides). I will do my best to do the intervals as laid out in the training plan. Therefore, I should have six rides in by April 1st, which will be about seven weeks before Quassy HIM and 14 weeks before IMLP.
Second question: Should I start doing more hills and start using a Stryd?
The Quassy HIM and IMLP run courses both look hilly. Should I start doing more hill runs? I have been reluctant to do many hills because a) risk of injury b) I wanted to run on flat courses to figure out my VDOT and c) it is hard to hit my prescribed zones when I am going up and down steep hills. Therefore, I have been doing more flat runs along Long Island Sound. (If I head north, away from the Sound, it gets hilly very quickly.)
However, I think that if I started training with power by using a Stryd, then I could train in prescribed power zones regardless of the terrain. Also, I feel pretty healthy given all of the run durability sessions I have been doing since October.
I don't go our below 30 myself...not worth it to me.
As for the hills, good question. Yes to riding them for sure, ride baby ride. As for the run, it's not too bad.
The first mile will be tough to get you rHR Down, but really it's mile 9 to the end that's a gut check.
Rather than big hills, I like rollers if you can. This will help you get used to different stride lengths and be a good introduction to bigger hills in May.
Maybe you can send me some strava links. I like the idea of the Stryd to keep your power in check, is that an option for you?
~ Coach P
Here are some Strava links:
Rides - Below are typical rides near my home. Lots of rollers.
- Example #1: Typical ride near my house - ~3400 feet of ascent over 51 miles. There are lots of rollers and its is easy to find steep +10% grade hills nearby. I am very fortunate because there are lots of routes nearby that I can create across challenging terrain. Note that on this particular ride, I was on a road bike with no power meter https://www.strava.com/activities/879499825
- Example #2: My only ride outdoors this year with my Powertap. ~2500 feet over 41 miles. I rode relatively hard at tempo (but had to stop several times because my I was having serious chain/derailer issuers, which have since been addressed). My Powertap recorded this ride as a weighted average of 242 watts. This seems very high relative to my Kickr, which has me at an FTP of 258 (albeit after a botched test in February). https://www.strava.com/activities/873446684
Runs:
- Example #1: My 13.2 February time trial on a course that is flat as a pancake. I like running near the beach because traffic is light and the conditions lend themselves well to testing across a wide range of distances. https://www.strava.com/activities/854956718
- Example #2: Here's a pre-work run I often do. It is uphill right out of my driveway and continues to go uphill and get steeper for about 8 miles, at which point it turns into rollers. This particular run has me doing 344 feet of ascent over 2.9 miles, and then I turned around and came back downhill. I like this route because it is challenging on the way out, and then on the way back downhill I can pick up the pace and stretch out the length of my stride . I do not like this run because the steepest part is the first mile, so it is particularly uncomfortable when it is cold and I have only been awake for 15 minutes. Thus, my first mile is often 10 minutes or slower, so it is hard for me to get my head around pacing zones. Especially because I do my time trials near the beach (see above) which is flat as a pancake.
Your local terrain is perfect for coffee. While running on the rollers is best, don't put yourself in a box regarding pace. That particular run you mention with the uphill start sounds awesome. I will morning about really wanting it, I would powerwalk for four minutes or five minutes to the halfway point then start the jog.
Success on race day is defined as not slowing down... But of course, all bets are off on a hilly course. You will have a leg strength and skill to run properly at Quassy. I would be more concerned about nutrition and overall race strategy then sorting out your training terrain. I know many flatlanders who would gladly trade routes with you anytime.
~ Coach P
Your post makes sense. I will continue to incorporate hills into my runs. Last night, I listened to your podcast on hills, which was timely given where I am in my training.
Yes, I agree, I am very grateful for the hilly terrain near my home. It helps a lot with my cycling and is good for my running form and strength. By the way, based on your feedback, I purchased a Stryd. This should help me put out a more consistent effort across the variable terrain near my house.
Finally, I just wanted to confirm that I will be doing an FTP on my Kickr this upcoming week. My schedule calls for this to be a test week. I will postpone testing my power on my PowerTap until May.
Happy St. Patrick's Day!
Thanks for the update. I agree with all of those decisions, And believe me those skills will come in to your favor by race day. Half of the competitors will just be looking up in the sky wondering how it's possible the earth moves UP yet again... And you will just be getting it done.
Good call on the indoor test, your time on the power top will come I promise. In the meantime if you do some research on a good place to test... Even a hill works!
~ Coach P
Is it normal for an avid cyclist's FTP to drop when you add running and swimming to the training regimen? My FTP was 256 when I started training for IMLP and then it inched up to 258 and every since I feel like my workouts are harder to finish.
I have been doing about 11 hours of training the past four weeks after my swim camp so I don't think I am over-training. Also, I sleep about 5-6 hours a night, which is pretty normal for me. I did do the weight loss challenge and dropped 8 pounds since January.
My 1K swim time trial was a few seconds slower as well.
Tomorrow is my run. Regardless of what the 5K time trial says, I know that my run is improving because I am knocking out long runs at good paces and at low heart rates.
My conclusion is that my body is adapting to longer runs and higher volumes of overall training, thus I am losing bike power during this transition/transformation. Does this sound right?
They will try to either re-calibrate my trainer to get it to previous readings, or I can keep it where it is work off of the lower FTP.
My FTP test logistics have been quite problematic recently. I guess that happens when you are trying to do everything on your own...
Tomorrow, I have to run my 5K. If that is a problem, then I think there is a possible overtraining issue. If it is pretty normal, than it was a Kickr software issue...
I will post you on Friday.
If it is a firmware issue, I will write a post on the message boards.
Think of it this way, before when you are biking you showed up to every workout fresh. Now when you're biking, you shorter every workout would run and swim fatigue in your legs. It just makes it harder to push the numbers.
I am curious to hear what you learn from technical support... Any chance you can look up heart rate, cadence, or speed? If those metrics are similar to what you didn't previous tests, Or better, than likely it is the wahoo.
One day, you will get this locked in you won't even remember having a problem!!!!!
~ Coach P
Per your request, here are two data points - identical rides before and after firmware update:
- Ride the week before the installation: https://www.strava.com/activities/896163537 (March 11th)
+ This was GF 2016 Week 3. Note that after my first long 100% FTP set, my heart rate was at 141
- Ride after update: https://www.strava.com/activities/905023483/overview (March 18th)
+ This was GF 2016 Week 4. Note that I aborted the ride after my second long 100%-FTP minute set. At the end of the first, my heart rate was very elevated for me - 162 bpm
According to my Strava - Fitness & Freshness curve (like a CTL chart in TP), my Form (i.e, Fitness minus Freshness) was only -1. That indicates that I should not have been overtrained going into this past week.
The week before, my legs were much fresher and my Form was +10, but I typically have 10-15 point movements after workouts. For my legs to feel trashed, I am typically I would be a -20 or so.
After this past Saturday and Sunday rides at the higher resistance (and conversely, the lower FTP) - my Form score dropped by 25 points because it was that much harder to turn the pedals. Thus, I did go into my FTP with somewhat tired legs, but the fatigue I believe was caused by the Kickr calibration issue.
Btw, I ran my 5K TT today. 7:22 pace. That is a few seconds faster than my last one, but my VDOT remained at 42.
No update other than that they are looking into my spin down data. The new, lower FTP on the bike doesn't feel bad. My Wednesday workout felt appropriate.
However, the fact remains that my PowerTap FTP appears to be in the 260 area, while the Kickr is now at 233. Thus, my Saturday outside ride had an IF of 1.02 and a TSS of over 300. Thus, my cumulative fitness/fatigue scores are all out of whack. Nevertheless, for now it is manageable because the indoor bike workouts are working and I have enough experience on the bike to know when I am burning matches and accumulating lactic acid.
However, I would like to be more precise when I am racing because I don't want to blow up on the run.
A few other things:
- I took your advice to heart and am hitting the rolling hills north of my house. I also have a Stryd and am collecting power data on my runs. No achilles tendon nor plantar facitis issues
- My swim is improving. My 1K TT is in the 1:57-2:02 range per 100 yards. While that is slow, I am breathing well and swimming much more comfortably. I am taking private lessons and have identified a lot of issues with my body position and stroke. I am using a cadence meter, which has helped balance out my stroke. I won't be setting any records, but my goal is just to leave the water feeling excited to get on the bike.
I suggest that you use your power tap as the guide because that's what you'll ride with on race day. We do not want to be doing any fuzzy math off of your wahoo data to try and draw a straight line to your race performance when there is a power tap in there. Make sense?
Yay to those hills... Make sure you finish every session feeling like you got a good bit left in the tank. These runs are not about speed, it's kind of like moving to a new planet with extra gravity. Just being there is good for you.
Great call on the swim. Speed on the swim is a Direct result of you being able to maintain your best form. It's not about fitness, it's about technique and sustaining that technique. If this new coach can help you define your "stroke" you'll be a lot further along to happy swim than before.
ONWARDS!
My previous 258 FTP came after a spring/summer when I was riding a lot of hilly century rides but doing very little running, and virtually no swimming.
The silver lining that I would like to focus on at this point is that a) I have lost 14 pounds since July b) My run times are consistent with five years ago when I did a lot of running (and no cycling) c) I am swimming more comfortably than I ever have and d) I have remained injury free throughout this process. My two goals for IMLP haven't changed - #1: exit the water smiling and excited for the ride and #2: finish the last 8 miles of the marathon running.
This week, I switched to the HIM plan.
Sunday, I have a 1/2 marathon that I will run with my girlfriend (who is faster than I am). My last HM time trial was at an 8:06 pace. This course will have some hills, so I will consider it a victory to beat an 8:15 pace / 1:48 total. However, regardless of my pace, this is my local running shop's big spring race, so there will be a ton of my friends there. Thus, regardless of my pace, it will be a fun morning.
Also, for my ride this weekend, I am going get off the trainer and do a "social" 56-miler. My brother, who is training for IM Canada, and a buddy from my old hometown, who is training for Leadville, and I are going to get on our road bikes, ride in a pace line, climb some hills and then eat breakfast. I won't have my power meter, but this will be a fun and probably hard ride. However, I won't be able to collect power data because my powertap is on my tri-bike.
The next event after the HIM will be Battenkill. That will be 75-miles of asphalt and dirt roads with some 17% climbs. That is May 20th. I will need my road bike for this (with no power meter).
Then I have Quassy the first week of June. EN's IMLP camp in mid-June. Then the big cherry on top of everything - LP in 108 days.
And that's also true for your run, especially within the context of Ironman®.
I'll be curious to hear how the half marathon went, let me know when you get a chance!!!
~ Coach P
The half-marathon went well. I ran with my girlfriend at an 8:21 pace, which was a PR for her. We had a fun race. Interestingly, my girlfriend was much faster than I was when we met last year, but I felt strong through the whole race and could have easily shaved more time (but not sure I could have beat the 8:06 I ran on a flatter course). Also, I rode ~54 miles and swam the day before, so my legs were not very fresh. Thus, overall I was satisfied with the HM.
I am completely fine with the 243 FTP. I don't feel over-trained and want to get out on my tri-bike as often as possible every weekend from here on in.
Next, I want to get my nutrition routine and water bottle configuration buttoned down for my long rides. Then, I need to figure out the kit I will wear and which Garmin devices I will use.
Well, I have had a bit of a set back this week.
First off, and most importantly, it turns out that I tweaked my knee on the HM on Sunday. I had tripped on a small gas-line cover on the road. Didn't think much of it until Monday, when I noticed a sharp pain on the inside of my knee after sitting at my desk. The blood must have been collecting there while I sat, because the pain went away when I walked and when my feet were elevated (i.e., it didn't hurt in the morning when I got out of bed).
I can tell what it is because I had a small ACL tear about a 15 months ago, and the pain is in the exact same spot. Last year, the doctor made me stay off it completely for a week, and then he let me start swimming and do light riding. However, he wouldn't let me run for a month. When that small tear happened, the knee swelled a bit. There was a small bruise on the inside of my knee, and it was very tender to the touch. No stability issues. More or less it was a small tear/rupture with some inflamation. Ultimately, not a big deal and it healed up completely.
My knee hurt Monday afternoon and Tuesday, so I skipped my scheduled runs. Yesterday seemed good, but I skipped my run again. Today there is no pain, so I am going to attempt a run tonight. If I feel any small hint of a sharp pain again, I will stop the run and take several more days off.
Fortunately, or perhaps unfortunately, I have a lot of experience with injuries. This seems pretty manageable. Clearly there are no stability issues. There is no visible swelling. There is no visible bruising. Also, the ACL is not tender to the touch. All of those observations suggest that nothing significant happened. But, I am being very cautious.
Oh, and the other thing was that I picked up a chest cold as well. I have been trying to sleep it off all week. Feeling much better. However, again, I am being extremely cautious and focused on staying healthy.
It is hard getting old, and then trying to juggle training with a busy work and parenting schedule.
~ Coach P
As for the cold, I went into hibernation mode and tried to sleep as much as possible the last three days. Feeling better.
I am going to keep my runnning volume a little light for the next few weeks but think I am back on track.
Sorry to hit the the panic button.