How to constructively address anti-cyclist drivers/people
I'm fortunate where I live in that I have access to a variety of riding with good roads and limited traffic. That said, I had an 'incident' last week that got me thinking. This 'incident' was a guy talking to me at a gas station who challenged me in the friendliest Wisconsin way possible. "I don't get why you guys insist to ride on the roads. Especially with all these bike trails in the area".
I responded that the nearest bike trail is about 10 miles in the other direction from which I came. I also stated that most recreational bike trails have speed limits and are filled with families, etc so riding a bike at 20-25MPH isn't safe or legal.. He replied that so many drivers are distracted or on their phones that it's dangerous for me to be out there and I agreed that distracted driving is a risk but I'm not doing anything wrong by riding on the roads it's the drivers that are not paying attention that are the issue, even if I'm the one more at risk".
I got to thinking...what's the best way to handle this? I know killing them with kindness is probably the best as logic doesn't work with many folks. I was thinking about statistics that could be shared, etc. The 'we have as much legal right to the roads as cars' argument, while accurate, is usually not well received and could be perceived as combative.
Any thoughts/suggestions/success stories?
Comments
Thanks for setting this post up and leading. I agree with your approach that we should kill them with kindness and take the higher road and I recommend all take a serious look at implementing that.
Unfortunately, in Texas, we (I) do things slightly different however, I now have a new goal for next year.
SS
Seriously, go ahead and kill them with kindness, but I'm guessing it won't change the dynamic between cars and cyclists. Think about cars and trucks. I live around Chicago and the relationship between cars and trucks ain't' good - Never has and never will
In my opinion, the best way is to ride defensively - single file when necessary, bright clothing and ride off to the right as much as possible. Also, should have a blinking red light on the back of your bike so you are more visible.
When I get buzzed by a car, I usually start yelling at them, hand in the air and occasionally the one finger salute. Not kind, but hopefully it makes a driver think about the distance between us and them.
If I ever find myself in a conversation, then I absolutely agree with your approach. No one responds well with a "me" attitude.
Re: prevention: the best action I have heard to date: install a lightweight plastic flag pole on the back of your rig and fly the biggest american flag you can get on it. Gets their attention, typically results positive yelling at you, and provides the rider some drag to make the session harder. Better yet, add an American flag bandana and very large (ideally graying) beard.
Or throw water bottles at them. I have done this twice with great effect. Seriously.
I do wish there was more education out there on the rules of the road and both cars and cyclists would respect each other.
This summer was carnage for cyclists in Montreal and the surrounding, cars have decided to be more aggressive regarding cyclists since some cyclist don't respect the signs etc.
We got 6 people killed since June, 54 since 4 years and many many injured
I decided to totally give up cyclists on road this fall and for the future, there is a place where I can ride 35KM withouth car since its the F1 race track and a road that connects all bridges around town. I only commute to work and it is because its a bike path and I use the velib service and the bikes cant go faster than 15mph, so I can stay on bike path.
There is a redneck stupid radio show going around that encourages cars to "make cyclists stay out of the road." Its even worst if you go outside of the city where people tend to be less educated and are usually more agressive with their car, its really sad because we have alot of nice area to go ride our bikes but its getting more and more dangerous.
Their arguments ? bikes dont always do their signs, so it allows cars to hit them! last dude who died was hit by a truck that decided to cut the bike path to save time because of traffic... what commentors on radio and comments on facebook were saying ? HE DIDNT WEAR AN HELMET ITS HIS FAULT! Last girl who died ? she cross the street when it was the pedestrian arrow and a truck decided to also turn, what pro-cars people were saying ? its her fault she was coming fast.
Anyway, on my side I just gave up and decided to just protect myself while on the bike, I've tried several times to discuss this topic with drivers and it was always the same arguments :
1) bike dont do their signs
2) bikes dont pay taxes (lolol wtf, must of us are also drivers!!!)
3) bikes slow the traffic (you dont need bikes in Montreal to have the city looks like a parking lot!!)
I also wish there was more education but it will need more.. and sadly I think it will take alot more deaths and injures so more people will be impacted and start thinking more how a car can be dangerous!
Thanks for listenning
Great post and very important. It is interesting to me that this guy brought up distracted driving and pinned that on the bikers.
Society is going hard against DD(distracted Driving) as it did Drunk Driving, you will see it ramp up. A cyclist friend of mine's teen-aged son was killed a few years ago when the driver of the car he was a passenger in was texting & driving. Here in NY, they are working on "evan's law," a new law that will allow the use of a "textalyzer" device that police would connect to the phone of a driver, and discover if it was being used for any text based functions while the car was driving. This device doesn't download the content, so it doesn't violate privacy laws. But it is a huge concern.
I've heard the same arguments in local online forums about "getting on the bike path." I think the kindness approach is good, but you don't always have the opportunity. I think the other things we can do as cyclists is understand that "share the road" is an important concept that goes two ways. Most cyclists think it is all about taking road from cars. As cyclists we can do more. Are there opportunities to ride on the white line? To the right of the white line? Yes, there are some roads where the right is beat up, and we have to ride a few feet into the lane, but we have the same responsibility to help cars get past us when there are limited sight distances due to curves or hills that we ask of them in giving us room. We all know that many of "us" have been just as egregious to cars as they are to cyclists.
Lastly, while it's not viewed as cool, I won't ride anywhere without lights. A friend collided with a car that turned in front of him, the ensuing police investigation showed the car couldn't see us on a sunny day when we approached the intersection from shaded trees, despite our bright colored kit. People should also be aware that some of the highest end bikes now come with slick built in light brackets, so the industry is clearly focused on this safety aspect as well. Make yourself more visible, you can wear orange helmets, yellow jackets & such, but NOTHING will make you more visible than lights.
And, no, while we don't have gun holders on our bikes, I know several people that ride with their handguns due to dangerous confrontations with stupid redneck 'we own the road' drivers. For some of my longer out-in-the-country rides, I'd prefer to carry a smaller one too if I could find one I liked. Now that won't help when you're hit by a distracted driver, but for peace of mind and protecting friends and loved ones out on the road with me-absolutely!
On the other side, I always yell at people to follow the laws. I tell fellow cyclists, that they don't have to necessarily stop at signs (although that's the law), they need to at least slow down. Furthermore, even though we might have the law on our side when it comes to taking the whole lane, I still prefer to ride as close to the right as possible to avoid issues and to prevent people from hating us even more.
Just last month I t-boned a distracted driver that was driving across the street from her apartment to Target to buy headphones. ACROSS THE STREET! Why not just walk, idiot?!? Luckily for me (and my bike), I locked up my brakes last minute and went into her door sideways and not head-on. I did a number on her door when I slammed into it, and then slammed my fists into her windshield when I got up off the ground - shattered it. I ended up with a sore shoulder and hip for a few days, and still dealing with some sore back issues, unfortunately.
Killing them with kindness is a great idea, and gives me something to aspire to, but I must admit that after about the fourth car buzzes the tower (my description of when I could reach out and touch the car they have driven so close to me), I am more than a little frustrated. In fact, it is after a few rides like that I wonder why I do this at all. I want to pay for a PSA or something. I have only half jokingly thought about creating and wearing a bike jersey that has on the back the "Share the Road" message and traffic sign to try to get people to understand.
Basically, I am frustrated that I am viewed as the enemy on the road when I have a right to it as well. I would love to hear suggestions (lights noted) to help, but mutual respect that is needed to fix the situation seems to be lacking.
@ DS- Almost spit my oatmeal on the computer! Never thought to throw my water bottle.
As a gal, out there riding alone. Most of the time. I get harassed a lot! Yelled at. Things thrown at me, buzzed, honked. My personal favorite is diesel trucks. They like to exhaust me to death. Usually a young male driver. This year has been a bit better than last year. I haven't been brake checked this year. I did have a older dude pull out and block the bike lane on purpose and stare me down. He got the 1 finger salute. It's kind of funny actually. I will be riding, with the Hubs, but we're pretty far apart. The car will buzz me but pull out WIDE for him. I know his butt is cuter but really!
My husband has even taken 1 guy to court. The judge sided with the driver that Mark shouldn't have been out there. That's what made the driver brake check him 3 times on an 11% down hill grade. Yep. Mark reached into the guys brain and MADE him brake check him.
As usual there is no easy answers. I just try and follow the rule of the road. Respect riders when I find them. I also ride at the same times. Wear the same kit. Ride similiar routes. Wave at the home owners. I want my community to claim me. To be familiar with my "look" and expect me to be there. I want to be known as "the gal on the green bike." In my mind ownership equals protection. So far so good.
Great topic. As I've said before, I currently live in a great area for cycling: easy access to some quality, very long bike paths that, while they are becoming more dangerous due to the number of cyclist and recreation-types moving from the roads to the paths, they are still better than the roads; as much climbing as you could ever want on mountain roads with relatively little traffic; and a very good network of seldom traveled, neighborhood roads that offer great "urban climbing."
My notes and comments:
Curiously, I've had some rather heated conversations with my step mother in Chattanooga, who's generally a redneck idiot (sorry). I've basically parked our discussions at "It doesn't really matter how you think things should be, the law says how things are and they say I have as much right to the road as you. So friggin' chill and allow 5 seconds out of your day to not kill someone riding in their underwear."
Well your pretty much wasting your breath no matter what you say.... Anyone who is even willing to have this conversation oughta be smart enough and understanding enough to know the common sense issues... About the best nice thing I can think of is to simply ask them to please "Drive their car around cyclist's like it is their children on the bicycle's."
I try to stay in my box but can't always do so.... Once I had an old guy use the break down lane I was in to set up his turn , I was so pissed I pulled in the store he went to right after him, and pulled up to his door, he rolled down the window and looked at me with complete blank stare, he had never seen me and had no idea... I was already calm and asked did you see me riding my bike in the break down lane? He shakes his head NO.... I just left... You cant make people see you....
Lots of good points above...
Cyclist's need to set good example's (lots of bad cyclists) In Oro Valley AZ I got stopped by a cop for not coming to a stop at a red light when making a right turn (there was an article in the paper about the increased policing between cars and cyclists prior to this) he gave me a warning... I said thank you very much, thank you for being here, you are absolutely correct , and I was in the wrong , I should have stopped , period.... No excuses...
Defensive riding and lights, I often travel to safer training area's... I have a garmin varia radar and if there is too much traffic its worthless as its just going off constantly... Pretty good on back roads and maybe descending area's where you are in the middle of the road...
In all reality tho, laws, lights, chucking bottles or kindness does not change the physics of this battle. Primed by the time I have spent working in ERs, the steady stream of cycling injury/death reports I read here and elsewhere on the internets has made me rather pessimistic that we can be safe out there no matter our intent or execution. I do not share Dinhofer's life-long love affair with the bike or willingness to die doing what he loves. So, I followed Potts in-doors, which sucks and means that my number of 3-6 hour bike rides will drop precipitously, but the flip side is that I enjoy my runs that much more, and truly get to enjoy the races especially (still in denial about on-course deaths).
As a nearly reformed redneck myself (who still drives a black diesel F250 raised way up on 35s), I promise to stick up for you out there. If I see my kin buzzing you, I will help them understand their mistake, our way
Twenty years ago, I biked across the USA. I learned it's a Big Country, filled with corn, soybeans, and cattle, and back roads and drivers who, while they may not always appreciate my being there, are at least not actively trying to injure me. Then I bike commuted to work for 10+ years, and learned how to take responsibility for both my safety, and the others on the road. Probably 100,000 miles in that time, and I have never been hit by another vehicle. (It's true I did hit a truck once, from the rear. I was going 25, he was going 5, and I simply wasn't paying attention on the otherwise empty road.) The only accidents/crashes/injuries I've had were my own damn fault or purely out of the blue. They've happened on deserted roads, on bike paths, in parking lots, single track. My conclusion, "There is no fate but what you make."
I have had the occasional person yell at me or seem to come too close. But I operate from the assumption that people like that value their ride and keeping it clean more than they value actually injuring me. So I keep an ear to the rear, and remain ever vigilant, and unflappable. I wave at LOTS of drivers on the road when they pass me; if they pass too close, I give an extra wave at their rear window. Whole hand, not single finger. I am their neighbor, is my attitude, and would like them to have that thought about the next cyclist they see.
That said, I have learned what conditions and places carry inherent danger, and either avoid them, or don't insist on acting like it's my road and mine alone if I can't.
Although they are wrong, I don't necessarily correlate angry drivers with dangerous drivers. I think that cell phone and texting has completely changed the risk factor. I see so many of them both while biking or driving. We have to change the technology force phones to be turned off while driving. I know we live in the free world but I think too many people in this country are stupid and need prevention. I also agree with the comments that following the rules of the road (stops, etc...) doesn't make you a safer biker. I believe I chose my bike route carefully to minimize the risks. However, 3 times over the last 2 years, while not even riding on the road (I was on the right side of the road line), going around 20-22 mph, I car or pickup truck passed me within a feet of my handle bar and at full speed. all 3 times, I yelled in panic for the sight, sound and wind reaction. Only 2 options possible with these drivers 1) they were distracted and we both got lucky or 2) he/she hated me and wanted to scare me. I don't believe the second option because on the 3 occasions (I skip all other scary moments), the drivers went by too close to do it intentionally.
The other statistic makes us a little unique and definitely more at risk: we spend so much time on the road biking that more things including risks are experienced.
I will not be violent with anyone until they attack first.