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IS PIONEER'S POWER METER SOLID?

Juan VergaraJuan Vergara
in General Training Discussions

Anybody in the haus with pioneer PM experience ? Considering for my next bike .... but no idea if it delivers!! Currently using QUARQ which tends to abandon me half way into the races !!!

Comments

  • scott dinhoferscott dinhofer
    Don't know anything about it. I know myself & many in the haus have moved to the P1 pedals, great for migrating from bike to bike, using them tonight on a gravel road ride on my CX bike for instance... just my $.02
  • Clark MitchellClark Mitchell
    The gospel according to Ray Maker - http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2016/09/power-meters-buyers-guide2016-edition.html

  • Mike WestoverMike Westover
    Pioneer is pricey for a crank-based system, when you can get Power2Max or PowerTap C1 for around $700. Or for $1200 (less on sale) you can get the P1 pedals.
  • Al TruscottAl Truscott

    I'm cheap, but profligate, so I have 4 power meters: Stages (on the left crank only of my road bike) $400; PowerTap hubs (TT and commute/cross bike) about $600 + wheel; and PT Pedals (half price @ $600). They all have been rock solid. I see no need to spend more than $600 +/- for NEW power meter, less if used. Deals are always coming round.

  • William JenksWilliam Jenks
    Al, out of curiosity, are you comfortable with the single side power meters in practice? (e.g., Stages) In principle, I've thought they should be ok, but i've realized that they only pick up half the "pulses" also. The PT, for example, gets a "pulse" with each left and right foot passing from roughly 2 o'clock to 5 o'clock. I'm not so concerned about power imbalance, but just there is inherently less data to get and average. That could lead to much noisier data in the short time frame of a few seconds.

    Am I making sense? What is your experience?
  • Brad MarcusBrad Marcus
    I just went to the P1's after my Quarq failed (just a day before a race!). My thinking was based on a few factors: very good recommendations from the team and from outside reports that I read, a 25% off deal that was on the table, and the ability to easily swap the pedals from bike to bike.



    Just after buying mine a few weeks ago, Powertap released their P1s pedals which are essentially single side power measurement for $699. If the cost of the P1's is an issue, you can always go this route and from what I've read, you can purchase the other paired pedal at a later point.



    My Quarq Riken only measured left leg power and after looking at the data from the P1, I've noticed that my left leg is generating 1-2% more power than the right. Not sure what to do with that data anyway, but I supposed the overall average power of both legs is now slightly more accurate for me using the P1 pedals....is that worth an extra $500 to get that information?? Probably not.
  • William JenksWilliam Jenks
    It isn't the 1-2% left/right differential that concerns me. I don't think that's important.

    What I was asking about is the fact that dual-sided or non-sided PMs are collecting twice as much data to average over the short term. Since PM data is so noisy anyway (lots of "bounce", even with 3 second averaging), I was wondering if the inherently smaller data set made that worse with one-sided measurements.
  • Brad MarcusBrad Marcus

    Posted By William Jenks on 19 Oct 2016 09:50 AM


    It isn't the 1-2% left/right differential that concerns me. I don't think that's important.



    What I was asking about is the fact that dual-sided or non-sided PMs are collecting twice as much data to average over the short term. Since PM data is so noisy anyway (lots of "bounce", even with 3 second averaging), I was wondering if the inherently smaller data set made that worse with one-sided measurements.
    @William - I had never even considered that. Probably a good question for the people at Powertap, Quarq, etc. I would guess that this may be true. Very difficult for me to ascertain with the data that I have since the power readings that I have from both PM's vary by a wide margin.


  • Clark MitchellClark Mitchell
    The only reason I can think of to go Pioneer is to keep your group set all Shimano. I got a new bike in April with a Dura Ace crank and Di2 shifting. I considered going with Pioneer to preserve the Dura Ace crank, but I could not justify the cost. I picked up a used Stages Dura Ace for $350, which I am using for this season and then I'll probably pull the Power2Max off of my old TT bike and use that going forward.

    I've heard nothing bad about them other than the price.
  • Al TruscottAl Truscott

    Posted By William Jenks on 19 Oct 2016 09:30 AM


    Al, out of curiosity, are you comfortable with the single side power meters in practice? (e.g., Stages) In principle, I've thought they should be ok, but i've realized that they only pick up half the "pulses" also. The PT, for example, gets a "pulse" with each left and right foot passing from roughly 2 o'clock to 5 o'clock. I'm not so concerned about power imbalance, but just there is inherently less data to get and average. That could lead to much noisier data in the short time frame of a few seconds.



    Am I making sense? What is your experience?

    I have the Stages on my road bike, and a PT for my TT. Since I'm not a bike racer (never done a bike race, never will. I have done swim and run stand alone races), I really don;t use the PM *on my road bike* to inform me while I'm riding. I go with HR and RPE, if I go with anything at all. Out of curiosity, and to answer your query, I checked short segments on from each PM which were totally steady (VI = 1.00, eg 159/158, 180/179, etc). While each gave the same number of displayed data points per minute, the Stages was "noisier" (wider variation between hi and low). That bothers me not a bit, as I use the PM on the road bike for after the fact PMC purposes only.

    My takeaway: Stages non-drive is "good enough" to keep track of how hard I'm working *overall*. But I wouldn't want to use it during a TT/Triathlon.

  • Mike WestoverMike Westover

    Posted By William Jenks on 19 Oct 2016 09:50 AM


    It isn't the 1-2% left/right differential that concerns me. I don't think that's important.



    What I was asking about is the fact that dual-sided or non-sided PMs are collecting twice as much data to average over the short term. Since PM data is so noisy anyway (lots of "bounce", even with 3 second averaging), I was wondering if the inherently smaller data set made that worse with one-sided measurements.

    I think the bigger issue with single-sided measurements is that your right and left legs can fatigue at different rates. If your balance is 50/50 when fresh, but 57/43 at high intensity or longer duration (one example I've seen), then a single-leg meter could be off by 15%. This is going to be different for each person (and can change due to injury, etc.), so might not be a problem for you.

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