Don't want to "Get kicked in the nutz" by the coaches

Jim Yanoschik · October 20, 2016 7:11AM

Background
The Plan- After reading Dave Ware's 2015 plan for IM AZ, I decided to enter the EN lottery for a spot in 2016. Like Dave (who was next to me in 2013 transition at IM AZ), my knees are shot. I was selected for entry. In 2016. I DNF'd in 2013 because my knee gave out at mile 8 and I did not want to injure the knee more. Had surgeries to clean them up, but I now jog and really can't run. 2014 was DNS due to crash and broken ribs. I have had other medical challenges in the past couple of years. I did my first IM in 1986 and this was going to be an anniversary and redemption.

The Reality- My wife who has had a horse her entire life wanted to breed,our ?? horse to produce a horse for me. Maximus was born late June and that left a big hole in the racing schedule this summer. But it has been a wonderful experience right up to the point where I got kicked by the baby colt in September.

It made it hard to train for a couple weeks especially running. So I know that my body is probably good for running (really jogging) 10-13 miles on race day. I know I will be walking a good portion of the run. MY QUESTION as I am preparing for 2016 IM AZ- What do you think of this plan? I plan on walking the first 4-6 miles out of T2. I am thinking that this would be the ultimate in not going out too fast but really allow my body to lower HR and allow the knees to adjust to jogging hopefully miles 6-18. Additionally, if it is a hot day, I will be walking in the heat and jogging when the sun goes down and it is cooler. I have had lots of stomach issues in the past and I am hoping by keeping HR down early in the run I fuel up during the "warmup walk". Comments?

Additional aero dynamics questions. I am not able to stay aero for long periods of time. Bad neck and shoulders from years of practicing dentistry. I am planning riding up on the hoods a lot. Again, I am planning riding up on the hoods more on laps 1 and 2 and as the winds pick up trying to go more aero on Lap 3. Question- I am planning on also being up more during the tailwind section allowing a break on shoulders and neck. The ideal scenario is staying aero on uphill section on Beeline Highway into a headwind and taking occasional breaks on the downhill and tailwind sections. What if the tailwind in on the uphill section? Thoughts?

I am getting this out there also so the coaches don't see me walking early on the run and thin that I over-cooked the bike and will give me the ultimate EN punishment and "kick me in the nutz" at Rula Bula.

Bruce Thompson · October 20, 2016 12:08PM

@ Jim...sorry to hear about the colt kicking you. OUCH! Here are my $.02 on your plan. I like the idea of staying aero into the wind no matter which direction it comes from on race day. If a headwind on the Beeline ascent, stay aero as much as you can. Then use the descent to sit up, stretch, etc. I'd try to stay aero on the flats as much as you can too. In the end, how much you are aero will be a function of how you are feeling at that moment.

I think walking the start (miles 0-6) of the marathon is a wise move. You can get your legs under, get your HR down, and control your core body temp in the hot part of the day. Then begin your running once you feel ready. It will get cooler quickly once the sun goes down, and that may the time to see what you have left in the tank.

Overall, I like your plan. Good luck. I'll see you in Tempe.

Paul Hough · October 20, 2016 3:22PM

Jim - I don't understand why a 2 week hole means you can only run 10-13 miles? I went into IMFL 2014 with a 6 week hole followed by the last 2 weeks of the plan where I was able to run every other day where I built up to something like a 8 mile run the week of the race. My doctor told me I was good to go as long as I did no damage. I made it to about 12 miles before I felt like something was going to rip then I powerwalked the rest. I understand the logic of your proposal, but if you are running now I think you can get more than 13 miles at IMAZ. I'm not saying what to do, but have you tried or considered an approach like running 9 mins and walking 1 min to see if that will take your run out much further in distance? You have plenty of time to try that before making a final decision on your run strategy.

Clark Mitchell · October 20, 2016 3:44PM

Regarding your bike question, think about it as air-speed and not ground-speed. If you're riding at 5 mph into a 15 mph headwind, you ground-speed is only 5 but your air-speed is 20 mph, so you want to be aero for sure, even though it seems like you're moving very slowly. Conversely, if you are riding at 20 mph with a 15 mph tailwind, your air-speed is only 5 so aero is less important.

Jim Yanoschik · October 20, 2016 4:37PM

Thanks Clark that makes sense. I think I intuitively knew that but I was hoping that there was an engineer or aero science guy that would confirm that.

JeremyBehler · October 20, 2016 4:48PM

Jim - I think walking 4-6 miles is too much. I think that running early is the best as you'll be prepared to jog after pedaling for 6 hours. Instead, I'd walk until you get your HR down 5-10 beats below your target. Then start to jog until you can't jog anymore, or do 1 mile on, one mile off, etc.

My concern would be that if you start walking for 4-6 miles that's a good 90-120 minutes which puts you 10 hours into the day already...some serious TSS points regardless of pace. You may find jogging even more difficult at this point. If that played out you would walk the whole marathon. I'd rather take it super easy up front knowing you are going to be walking eventually but seeing how the legs come into form.

Jim Yanoschik · October 20, 2016 4:53PM

@Paul-my knee is only good for about 13 miles before it gives out and buckles. Of course, on race day I will run as far as possible. I have the run/walk strategy in the back pocket. I will error on the side of caution when it comes to my health. ?? Old guys tule.

@Bruce-what I really hope is that you are on your second loop and are going for the AG win and you are starting to struggle. Then I come up and pace you in. Problem is my pace is 11:00 min/mile. So you will be flying by me. ??

david ware · October 20, 2016 4:58PM

Jim: I agree with what has been said above about aero. On running, You will likely be much further along than I was last year. At this point I only did 2 long runs: 13 on 10/20 and 11 on 10/29. After that the knee really hurt so I actually only ran 5 times in Nov before the race, all very short. My thought raceday was to see how long I could go before I had to walk. Running the first mile
Was not bad, but walking the Aid Station really hurt. I knew that once I started walking things would go downhill. I made it 6 (walking the Aid Stations) and then walked the last 20. By the end my other knee hurt so bad I could not go to sleep that night. If I had started out walking I think I would have quit within a mile or 2.

Best wishes with however you choose to handle it. I had another knee surgery in February and still not running. Will be cashing in my insurance for IMAZ but will still be there to cheer everyone on!

Al Truscott · October 20, 2016 5:03PM

Jim - I think the status of your knees is much more of a limiter than a 2 week hole in run training two months before your IM. I think back to my 2011 IM AZ, where I got BAD Plantar fasciitis on Oct 13, took 8 days totally off, then ran no faster than what we now call TRP and no farther than 8 miles over the remaining 3 weeks before the race. I ran the whole way on race day, and had a decent time (meaning: it surprised me how fast I went given the lack of any long runs and speed work) I've read lots of other race reports of people who missed run training or had to back off substantially due to one thing or another. I think you can get away with that on the swim or the run, but never the bike. So if missing out on some run workouts were the only issue, I;d go with Paul and tell you to HTFU.

But you've been at this for DECADES, and you know better than anyone what those joint surfaces feel like in your knees. You;re gonna be around another 20-30 years, and you want them to be active ones, with travel and biking and everything. So I endorse your sense of caution 110%. But I still think you;d surprise yourself with how much you will be able to run on race day, albeit at a pace that might have been embarrassing to your younger self (but not to us OFs!) Some flavor of Pauls suggestion might make sense, especially if you try it out during training. Like run a minute, walk 390 seconds. Run 5/walk 2; run a mile, walk a half mile. Whatever. Anything you can manage which would be faster and more engaging the the sheer BOREDOM of prolonged walking on an IM course. Been there, done that, never again.

Some aero is better than none. No way you can adjust the fit, or put stubbies on your roadie?

Bottom line, "keep doin' it till you can't", eh?

Bruce Thompson · October 21, 2016 9:33AM

@ Jim...Some more wise advice from David and Al. Just do what you think is best to get the finish line while protecting your long-term health. I hope to see you in AZ before, during and after the race. If during the run, I promise to give you some mojo to keep you going no matter what pace each of us is going. And yes, I hope to be in contention for the AG win.