Brad M's super Micro-thread
Hi Coach,
I figured best to move our conversation over to the micro forum since there is a fair amount of information that you requested and which I am including here. Funny how I probably answered a couple of my questions by just going through the exorcise of putting this all together for you, but I'll let you be the judge. My biggest issues are how I can go about putting my run (which is my strongest discipline) to better use more effectively in a long course race. Also, why I am not seeing better gains on my FTP....I swear I work hard in the OS and don't mail it in! 
Any help would be appreciated and don't sugar coat it for me!!!
2016 RR – Aug 6
Bike:
https://www.strava.com/activities/666995523/overview
AP=152
NP=160
IF=.67
VI=1.05
Avg HR=118
Avg temp=82F
Notes: 2 weeks prior to IMMT. Roade with Heidi, which involved stopping, turnarounds and probably some areas of lowered effort when we rode together. Ate and drank according to plan.
Run (following bike):
https://www.strava.com/activities/666997838
Notes: HRM died in 1st mile. Unfortunate, but felt pretty good throughout and this involved running part of hill into LP @ mile 5.
2016 Long Run – July 21
https://www.strava.com/activities/648463009
Notes:18 miles with rolling hills. Ran steady by HR throughout at LRP to Z2 with attempt to push last couple of miles to Z3 effort. Drank Gatorade throughout and took gels every :45 with water. No GI issues.
Bike Nutrition Plan (as planned for IMMT):
Calories: 322/Hr
Sodium: 753/Hr
Begin drinking 15’ in – Goal is 1.5 bottles (30oz) Gatorade per hour – fill torpedo as needed – plan is to transition from solids to liquids by 2nd loop on course
Begin eating on the :20 starting with ½ waffle and other ½ at 1:00
Then move to Rice Krispy Treat halves at 1:40 and 2:20
Banana halves at aid stations if feeling hungry
Then go to 1 Powergel / hour for remainder of ride
1 salt stick cap per hr on the :00’s
Drink water in last hour if I need to
Plan to pee 2-3x on bike as needed
Notes: Was very WET and cool day on bike. I was probably closer to 1 ¼ bottles per hour. I actually peed 5-6x (most ever) on bike and knew I was very hydrated. Power meter died just prior to race and had to race using HR/RPE. Target was 120-125 bpm
2016 IMMT Bike https://www.strava.com/activities/684768372
Run Nutrition Plan (as planned for IMMT):
Calories: 297
Sodium: 675
4oz gatorade/mile, 1 powergel/hour with water, 1 salt stick tab/hour, coke as needed (hopefully not until later in the run!)
Notes: Did not run great off bike from the start. By mile 7-8 I realized something was not right. By mile 10, I was feeling very nauseous and that lasted throughout. At that point, nutrition plan unraveled too since it was tough to get down anything. Tried Coke, chicken broth – nothing helped. I carried Tums with me for emergency. Tried eating those, but did not help. Pace and HR dropped and struggled to get them going again.
2016 IMMT Run https://www.strava.com/activities/684768808/overview
FTP History:
2015 Aug (pre-crash) 235
2015/16 OS Start 225
2016 OS End 250
2016 prior to IMMT 240
Current FTP (Est) 240
Current weight: 175lbs
IM Race day weight: 160-165lbs
Comments
Looking good, and thank you! IIRC, our questions were mainly…
(1) Why does run on race day performance falls short of Race Rehearsal?
(2) What happens with nutrition on Race Day (nauseous) vs in training?
(3) How can we improve your OS FTP?
FIRST, it has to be said that you clearly are cursed technologically speaking on race day. You have to promise to change your batteries 14 days before every race from here to eternity. That ensures new batteries in time to fix things should they go wrong.
I only say this because your lack of specific data on race day makes analysis hard. So that’s that.
SECOND, interesting question on the run. Especially as you can clearly run long (18 miles) in the mid to upper 130s Heart Rate. But on race day, your HR is down by your bike HR…mid 120s….10 beats of HR is worth a chunk of race day speed.
So my THEORY is that you aren’t biking hard enough.
Your RR shows you at an IF of 64…that’s fall asleep riding…and your HR was 118. Take out the early noise at IMMT (no power) and your HR was 121. Less than 1% variation after a 2.4 mile swim and T1.
So I think you are racing at Watts that are essentially “locking” you in to an aerobic zone from where you can’t escape. If I had to guess…I’d like to see your Bike AHR be 130….so that your run could be 135 to 138. We don’t have the data to show number wise, but as I look at the 82 miler you did on 7/10 at 70%, your AHR was 123…and if you take out the first 90 minutes of Admin/Warm Up you are close to 128….a good extrapolation to what your would have averaged HR-wise across the rest of the bike for 112.
This means more 3hour and 4 hour power sessions this next season. Big focus on the ABP work…you can ride long / steady with Heidi…but that second day on the weekend has to be you putting your nose to the garmin and pounding out some good work.
THIRD, your nutrition is hard to say. You aren’t over exerting on the bike per the above…and your HR is consistent. I think the next thing to look at is your contents…best practices are:
- 2-3 bottles of Ironman Perform on bike, then slowly transition to GE on the course.
- Start food at 15’ but it’s 1/2 waffle, 1/2 waffle, PowerBar Gel, PowerBar Gel, PowerBar Gel, 1/2 power bar (or waffle), 1/2 power bar (or waffle), PowerBar Gels rest of the way. No more Rice Krispie treats on race day please and save banana for T2.
- Different carbs on the run (Clif Bloks great for this). And you need to eat right out of the gate. If you wait an hour…you aren’t eating until Mile 7…but you know you’ll be off regular food by 1/2 way…so you only have 6 miles to eat for the run. No bueno. You need to get most of your food in as early as possible on the run.
In training I eat 1 gel per 30 minutes…or 3 per 90 minutes. On race day, I try to eat those same three gels at miles 2, 4 and 6….while HR is down…because I know I can’t eat later. Hopefully some good stuff for you there.
FOURTH, the Bike FTP has to change. I agree. I think you would benefit from some of the 110% interval work…it’s not so hard you can’t do it for up to 5 minutes…and when you string together 4 x 5’ at 265, for example…it makes holding that number more mentally achievable. So I might have you do that on your Tuesdays vs regular FTP sessions, and then stick with VO2 (Thurs) and FTP (Sat). Let’s see what we get after 8 weeks and we go from there.
The progression would be:
WK1 - 4 x 3’ (4’)
WK2 - 3 x 4’ (6’)
WK3 - 5 x 3’ (5’)
WK4 - 4 x 4’ (6’)
WK5 - 4 x 4’ (6’)
WK6 - 5 x 4’ (6’)
WK7 - 5 x 4’ (6’)
WK8 - TEST
Let me know what you think!
~ Patrick
Coach P-
Thanks again for diving into all that data...I realize it's a lotta stuff! A couple of points/comments/questions on your observations:
Thank you again and looking forward to a good and healthy season...for both of us! -Brad
(1) Technology, check!
(2) Theory has been seen before...top reason we tell folks NOT to bike at .65 , but rather .7 and let the Bike TSS fall where it may. There's a point where your body just gets into a groove / run / slot and you won't be able to get out of it. Yes to more solo hard rides...maybe 2x a month? Not a ton more...just enough more.
(3) Generally, bike zones are lower than run zones by 10 to 15 beats. On race this this is more narrow (cautious / steady on bike, tired by run time) closer to 8 beats. And as you age 55+, those zones narrow even more to the point where one might ride and run at the same HR all day.
In your case, you have a 20 beat gap in zones 2 & 3 from bike to run. I think you can bike harder than YOU THINK you can. My guess is that once we re-jigger your zones to include the effects of harder training, you'll be surprised to see that your new Z2 bike zone for HR is actually low to mid VS mid to high. We have time for this, but I am sticking to it.
(4) Starting with PB Perform just means three bottles on your bike...and as you drink one, replace with GE...so for me it's start with 2 and aerobottle (1)...then dring aero, replace with a rear bottle, skip Aid Station #1....then drink aerobottle, replace with rear bottle and grab 1 bottle GE at AS #2. By AS #3, I have finished all my Perform, have loaded GE into the aero and grab another GE for the rear.
That works for PB / GE..but infinIT is a different formulation and doesn't play well with other fluid brands...let's try this easier one first.
(5) Can't wait to track you this OS!!!
~ Coach P
Thank you again! -B
Hey Coach P-
Back in Nov I was in a pretty severe car crash. The other driver crossed the double yellow and I hit him head-on...Lots of impact resulting in lots of whiplash and then I've been plagued with some lower back issues that I've been working through since. It didn't initially seem too bad and I got through 5 weeks of the Nov OS without much incident. After that, things worsened and I've been on a steady diet of visits to my Chiro and PT. Neck is fine, but lower back has been not-so-good. Swim/Bike/Run came to a complete halt for 2+ weeks. I've been putting my toe back in the water again and have done a couple of 30 min runs and some non-kicking swims, but I'm anxious to get going again and see what I can handle. The back is still stiff, but not nearly as painful. I am officially entering Wk 8 of the NOV OS, but not sure where I should pick things up. I am also going on a family vaca all next week where I can certainly get run and swims in, but will only have a access to a stationary gym bike. Any suggestions on how to proceed from here? Thank you!
BTW - Happy holidays to you and the family!!
Brad
As you are experiencing, is the residual effects of the accident of the worst.It's hard to tell exactly what the impact/airbag defect has done but I'm assuming since you haven't named anything scientific that it's nothing terribly obvious. For me, if you can run you should be able to ride... But we still need a little bit more time before you get back into it.
I suggest an active or vacation with 30 minutes a day of"something." Your choice of modality. During that time keep up any flexibility strength required or recommended by your team.
Once you're back we can get on track. It's good to know that you have a built-in "buffer," since you had to get faster plan scheduled. You don't technically need to start your Ironman training until April 24. This means you can easily restart the OS if required....Or at least redo the first eight weeks before proceeding.
In many ways you're going to need at least two weeks of proper training before you feel normal enough to start working again, so I'd like to take a more conservative approach.
Want to tell me which way you are leaning?
I was looking at things last night, and re-set things up so that I am in now in week 2 of the OS plan. Don't think I need to re-test, as I have a pretty good idea as to where I am right now. That would take me out through the end of March in the OS, leaving me April-July until I get to IMSR on July 29. Also am racing Patriot Half in mid-Jun, but think I'll be ok there.
How does this sound/look to you?
Sorry to read about you injuries
Brad
What you sacrificed in terms of keeping up with your old plan, you gain by having manageable workouts that will set the stage for what's coming down the pike.
Onwards!!
~ Coach P
Hey Coach-
Just checking in and wanted to give an update on my above micro from what we discussed over the last few months. So after getting derailed by my auto accident, I eased back into things and the back and neck are doing well. This has been battle tested by some serious snow shoveling
After starting the NOV OS, and then resetting and starting again in Jan, I am in week 8. I did FTP test #2 yesterday, which yielded a an FTP 244np vs last test of 236np. Certainly not a huge gain, but it is going the right way. As a reminder, you had suggested that I substitute Tues ftp bike wkos with the following over 8 weeks:
WK1 - 4 x 3’ (4’)
WK2 - 3 x 4’ (6’)
WK3 - 5 x 3’ (5’)
WK4 - 4 x 4’ (6’)
WK5 - 4 x 4’ (6’)
WK6 - 5 x 4’ (6’)
WK7 - 5 x 4’ (6’)
WK8 - TEST
I did this exactly. I found that initially holding extended FTP intervals on the Saturday wkos were kind of tough, but they got "easier" over weeks 5-7...I use "easier" loosely! So, the question is, now what? Do I continue doing the 110% work on Tuesdays? Are you surprised that my FTP was not higher? I am with 5 points or so from my all-time high. I'd love to target 260, but not sure if that's doable. Thoughts?
Thanks as always! -Brad
Thanks for the update. I think that progress, given your "evolution" this year, is awesome. I say we go big. 5 points off is just a 2% error, so you are right there. Remember, your FTP _outdoors_ is much higher.
I say you continue with the OS (and normal FTP), but run the 110% off of a desired number. So instead of riding 110% of 244 (268), we run them off of 260 (285). That change will hurt. A lot. So maybe we dial it up over 4 weeks:
- 272 via 3 x 4’ (6’)
- 276 via 5 x 3’ (5’)
- 280 via 4 x 4’ (6’)
- 284 via 4 x 4’ (6’)
Pumped to see what you get up to!~ Coach P
FREAK! I am curious to know why that is? For me, I push harder when the road goes up (Love me those 2% hill sections) but not everyone has that gear in their system. I know you live in a hilly area...or was this outdoor FTP tested on an "approved" section?
~ Coach P
Update: Woke up yesterday with some nasty pain in my foot. Didn't seem normal and saw the orthopedist this morning. My fear was confirmed - stress fracture! He told me no running for minimum of 4 weeks, and maybe 6. Cleared me to bike and swim as long as the biking isn't causing pain. Since the stress fracture is on the back, lateral side of my foot, I'm guessing the bike will be ok. Could be worse, but I'm a bit bummed nonetheless.
Any suggestions for a weekly bike focus with swimming for a month or so? Hoping to turn this into some kind of positive
Thanks!
SS
If you can stick with the get fast plan, let's do it. The best way to modify that is:
So the ABP ride breaks down as...
3/6: 60' ABP as 4 x 15' (3').
3/13: 65' ABP as 5 x 13' (3')
3/20: 70' ABP as 3 x 20' (5')
3/27: 75' ABP as 5 x 15' (2')
4/3: 80' ABP as 4 x 20' (4')
How does that sound?
~ Coach P
I guess I'm worried about how much of my run fitness will be lost in the down time? Assuming it'll be 4-6 weeks, what are my expectations? I'm coming off of an avg of 30mi/wk, with long runs in the 10-12mi range.
Not sure how this happened?! No signs leading up to it, in fact I felt like my run was coming along nicely. It came 2 days after a 10 mile run that included some z5 work for the first time in awhile. I did 4 x .5 mile (.5 recov). Was tough, but felt ok. Maybe was too much... going for an MRI today to get 100% confirmation, but the doc is fairly certain.
Put it this way, you can't estimate lost run fitness. Or rather, even if you could, you can't do much about it at this point. By keeping up the bike and swim, you should be fine...and you won't be more than a few weeks away from getting it back.
Sometimes things just "give" -- bones are funny that way. Could be an issue with work shoes, for example, that's exacerbating it. All we can do now is get you back to consistent and go from there!
~ Coach P
I am okay spacing out the runs and I think it will be a prerequisite especially as you get back into your normal training.
What did the DR tell you re the PF in terms of actions / mitigation steps?
~ Coach P
@Brad Marcus --
Here's your updated Season Plan, as promised. This is where you'll return to post all your "coach" questions as responses; I'll see them and reply. This first post is my best outline of how to proceed with your races, but you can ask any / all questions you want. So post away, know that I reply here usually Monday & Friday each week.
Power User Tip: Click the Star icon by the Title of this thread to subscribe, and you'll get email updates when I do reply.
Coach Notes
Thanks for checking in. You're not in shape now, but you DID need that rest. Don't get too down on yourself; we all heal at our own pace. The key now is to stay focused / priorities. First and foremost, the body composition can be moved up the list. Some good habits are key here, and coupled with consistent running can really help you out.
The goal here is to focus on FREQUENCY not speed or volume. The total # of runs is what matters!
You can keep up with one zwift race during the week and if you want, to join us on the weekends for either day ride. You can find us here: GroupMe EN Zwift Chat to talk all things zwift and intensity. The weekend rides are fun too!
What is your best time at Quassy, out of curiosity?
Your Races
Season Update
These are your recommended training plans, including the date you should start each one (sometimes you won’t complete a full plan but transition to another one). You can change your plans on the Training Plan page by clicking the Move / Change button. Learn more about each plan on the Training Plan Central Page.
Your Notes
2018 Ironman Austria - raced it alongside Heidi with less than normal fitness
plus a handful of sprint and olympic distance races
Have been loosely cross training, 6-7 days week. Masters swim 2 days/wk, Bike on Zwift and Peloton 3 days/wk, Running 3-4 days/wk (1 speed day, 1 long day - 10 miles). Total run is currently 20-25mi/wk.
*Currently 10-15 lbs overweight compared to this time other years. Time to get to work!
Let's get to work!
~ Coach P
@Coach Patrick -
Thanks for the detailed plan. I was surprised you didn’t prescribe the NOV OS. This will be the 1st time I am NOT going that route, but you’re the coach and change is sometimes good :) To answer a few of your questions and fore back some of my own:
I raced Quassy 2x - 2014, 2015. Had some bad things go down both times. 2014, a 45 min mechanical on the bike = bad bike and very good run, 6:24. In 2015, had the flu week prior to race and foolishly didn’t pull out, 5:55. I really ‘dislike’ the course, but it’s local and it’ll whip my ass into shape earlier since you can’t go there unprepared.
Here’s whatbive got for you:
Run Dura has always scared me bit. Worried about my body holding up to the volume. Any issues with this on the team? Assume the idea is shorter runs, more frequency, will take care of this?
You have me scheduled to do 3 sets of Run Durability. There is minimal biking. Can I add additional biking?
Will I have enough build time going in Quassy?
Finally, why a bike focus after IMLP?
Thanks as always. By the way, congrats on your killer performance in Kona. You lit it up!
B
@Brad Marcus - chiming in here.. as you know I have been rebuilding from a hard stop. In addition to that I did have a right hip issue prior to my hard stop which was caused by a weak hamstrink/glute complex.
I started running in earnest about 8 weeks ago. look at my strava or we can review my TP over lunch next week. I also have begun a 1x a week routine on hammy, glute and body strenghtening. I Took run durability to a different tone, run streak... the beauty of this is that the runs are all short.. I run every day. A minimum of 1.5 miles and the most I've done in a day is 6. I a now at 25 mpw and feeling good. My LEFT hammy flared a few times and some good self care (Stretching, foam roller, normatec) seems to have kept that at bay...
@Brad Marcus -
Just picking this up...great questions as always...
~ Coach P