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HIM IF??

Bob IrwinBob Irwin
in Racing Forum 🏎

The wiki says anyone over 3 hours should have a taerget IF of of 78-80.  This is higher than the racing with power webinar.  I guess the wiki is probably more current, but just wanted to check.

Comments

  • Nemo BrauchNemo Brauch
    Good catch- I'd trust what is in the Power Webinar on the Power Gearing spreadsheet. .78-.8 seems a bit too "hot" to me for a >3:00 HIM split (or at least it sure as heck would be for me).

    Rich? Patrick?
  • Coach PatrickCoach Patrick
    I put this to Rich today...stay tuned....
  • Bob IrwinBob Irwin

    I'm not really sure if 78-80 is too much for me or not.  Since I just got my powertap a few months ago, I've never raced with power before.  I will say that my run hasn't come along as well as my bike, so whatever range is appropriate, I probably need to stick to the bottom of the range.

  • Beth_SBeth_S

    Bob -- I'm the the same boat you are -- I'm glad you asked this question and look forward to knowing the answer for this weekend's race rehearsal.

  • Coach RichCoach Rich

    All,

    I'm assuming the HIM How-To post is the one you're looking at? If so, follow the guidance there (and in the IM How-To) over the Power Webinar.

    The Webinar was created in Jan '08. We have learned a few refinements since then and they have been included in the Wiki. We have not updated the Webinar to reflect. No worries, they're minor, and simple, but still important. When in doubt, follow the Wiki.

  • Bob IrwinBob Irwin
    Rich - it was the post that says Race Execution, Half Ironman at the top that is linked to the plan. I remember from listening to the podcast on the power webinar that all TSS are not created equal and that people that are going to be out there near the limits of the table should use IF's a little higher than on the table. I guess this falls into that category. Now I just have to concentrate. Riding steady with power is a skill that takes a while to learn. It's really shown me that i pushed way too hard on hills, and went way too easy going downhill. And that was after listening to you tell us not too for a season and a half, and trying really hard to go steady just using heart rate. Thanks
  • Coach RichCoach Rich
    Posted By Bob Irwin on 03 Jun 2010 11:48 PM

    Rich - it was the post that says Race Execution, Half Ironman at the top that is linked to the plan.

     

    Please cut and paste the link here. Thanks.

  • John StarkJohn Stark

    Here is a link to a preso from last May.  Slide 7 of the PDF shows your TSS target and IF target for HIM.  This preso was EN Gospel last year.

    Last year at Cali 70.3 I targeted .80 and I think I did a .79 and felt good coming off the bike.  After spending so much time at .80+ during training rides that doing it on race day seemed almost easy.  Don't sell yourself short.

    Preso:  https://www.box.net/shared/2e1hi7n7c5

    I couldn't find the spreadsheet noted in the preso in EN just now but I have it saved for myself here:  https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc...&hl=en

    Hope this helps.

  • Nemo BrauchNemo Brauch
    John- what was your bike split at Cali? The .78-.80 vs what is in the Power Webinar stuff is mainly an issue for the >3:00 bike split athlete. If you follow the guidance in the webinar/power spreadsheet, and you estimate your bike split at something longer than 3 hours, you'll get IF ranges closer to .72-.75 (that's a bit off the top of my head 'cause I don't have those files in front of me- but you get the idea).

    I really can't imagine doing .8 IF at a HIM and having a good run - not considering how long I'm out there anyway.

  • John StarkJohn Stark

    Nemo:

    The Wiki has the Bike Execution preso I linked below in it.  Has worked well for me.

    The 2:59 bike split "Green" range is .75 to .78 IF.  The .75 is @ 3:13 bike split.  The chart doesn't go below .75.  The two race rehearsals would tell someone where they want to be in the range.  Which is great because we are all different.

    FYI - @ 2:52 it is at 80% where I was roughly at for the day in Cali 70.3.

    And wouldn't a 3 hour bike at .75 to .78 range WITHOUT 2x or 3x intervals seem pretty easy after all the training rides above .80 IF WITH intervals?     But that may be just me. 

    Hope this helps, Bob.  Have a great race.

    John

  • Nemo BrauchNemo Brauch
    John- I agree, race day execution is sooooo much easier than any EN workout!!

    The reason I asked you about your time iat Cali 70.3 was because it sounded like you were recommending to Bob to go with the .8 IF and the point here is that the IF you choose is absolutely related to how long you anticipate being on the bike. Re-reading your post, I don't think that's what you intended- its just how I read it.

    The issue I think Bob is having is that the Wiki says:
    "Refer to Racing with Power Guidance but generally:
    2:30-3:00 split = .8-85 IF Use TSS tables to define specifically.
    3+hr =.78-80 IFlet TSS sort itself out. "

    But when you go to the Power Guidance (which takes precedence over the "generally" stuff in the Wiki according to the Wiki itself", the tables list ranges for 3+hr athletes as:
    2:59 .75-.78
    3:06 .75-.77
    3:13 .75
    Anything greater than 3:13 on the bike shows in the yellow zones.

    .75 and .8 are actually a pretty big difference, so the question is, which is the recommended approach?

    PS- I'm using .75 for Eagleman no matter what Rich says the answer is :-)
  • John StarkJohn Stark

    Sorry for any confusion.  And as you know, there are a few contradicitions in EN as we have evolved.  But that is why we ask the clarifying questions like this thread, right?

    The chart speaks for itself.  And Rich said, "When in doubt, follow the Wiki."    This is The (New) Gospel According To Rich.

    However, for me (and you, I see), if the chart says one thing and my RR's show I am more comfortable at a lower IF then that is what I do.  We all can't be Carrie Chavez or Dave Halligan.  Though we sure give it a good try sometimes. 

    Have a GREAT weekend.

     

  • Chris GChris G

    Maybe I am wimpy but I have never managed to hold near .85 for a HIM bike split and have still run poorly regardless.  Trying to sit on .85 for that long is very hard for me.  I ended up with .79 at Timberman last year and was on the bike for 2:30:xx.  IIRC P was around .8 also.

  • Coach RichCoach Rich

    STOP

     

     

    You're all confusing each other. Here's the deal:

    • The Power Webinar, and the materials in it, were create in Jan '08
    • Since then we've learned a lot, specifically the nuances involved with peeps riding slower than 6-6:15 IM bike splits, and 3-3:30 HIM splits.
    • Those nuances are explained in a couple places, one of which is the Wiki.
    • We have not added or changed the information in the Webinar to reflect this changes. Think 1st edition of a book, that edition hasn't sold very well = not a ton of incentive to change it, but maybe the publication of Hunter's new book creates an opportunity to rework the Webinar, push it out to the world again and generate new sales...then I fall into the sink hole of ToC, a wedding in Denver, then IMLP camp next week, then CDA, then IMWI camp....ugggg
    • Next week (promise) I will:
      • Clearly outline in the Wiki what exactly these changes and nuances are
      • I will make sure that an EN member purchasing the Power Webinar is hit in the head with these changes after their purchase.
      • I'll consider creating PW 2.0 for the general public, etc, but that's a much bigger discussion

    In the end, all I really care about right now is "Do EN athletes know how to race with power?" We have the info, we just need to organize it better and hit you in the head with it. 

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