Patrick Quinn Micro Thread
Great to talk to you on the phone today...this thread is the one place you and I go back and forth for all your training edits and changes....every time you reply to me it moves it to the top of my list.
Strength Resources: You can find them all in the Resource / Wiki / Strength section (here). For the winter we prefer Monday and Friday for these sessions.
Not Read Forum Posts: From the Forum navigation above, also here.
Don't Forget Ask A Question Page: This will help you discern best way to get the answer you need. View the page here.
Looking forward to working with you!
~ Coach P
0
Comments
Here's your updated Season Plan, as promised. This is where you'll return to post all your "coach" questions as responses; I'll see them and reply. This first post is my best outline of how to proceed with your races, but you can ask any / all questions you want. So post away, know that I reply here usually M/W/F each week.
Power User Tip: Click the Star icon by the Title of this thread to subscribe, and you'll get email updates when I do reply.
Your Notes
Since the beginning of December, my activity level has been quite low. I routinely do this every year to focus solely on family during the holidays. My last race was the Rocky 50k fat ass run on 12/2/17. Since then I has focused mostly on weight training. My season is some what up in the air, but my submissions are close to what I aiming to complete. Regardless I want to consistently train and aim to improve overall.
Your Races
Season Update
These are your recommended training plans, including the date you should start each one (sometimes you won’t complete a full plan but transition to another one). You can change your plans on the Training Plan page by clicking the Move / Change button. Learn more about each plan on the Training Plan Central Page.
Coach Notes
Great to see you are ready to build up for this year. I love the diversity of your events...going to be epic. The foundation all year will be some good solid running....don't be afraid to fire up some kind of a run streak using the Run Durability Program (RDP) and our Run Durability on GroupMe.
Then in February you move to the OutSeason Plan and roll right into Broadstreet (we can work on the taper / mods here) and then short course into the Escape Philly. Some bike focus time to boost the volume before the traditional EN*Half Plan gets to work.
We will need to modify that as well so that you get the run volume you need into the 50k.
How does all of that sound?
Let's get to work!
~ Coach P
Patrick Quinn
So far my off season has been going well. However, due to an unforseen circumstance I am going to have to bow out of triahlon for this season. I still plan on contiuning with running. That being said I need to update my training plan accordingly. This is not due to any injuries so I can still fully participate in swimming and biking if the training plan dictates so. My races have been changed to
10/7/18 Crest Best 10 mile road race
10/28/18 Marine Corp Marathon
11/17/18 Philadelphia 1/2 Marathon
12/1/18 Rocky 50k
At your conveinience could you please advise on how to alter my training plan? I just finished with the outseason run focus plan and was due fo start the short course plan. Just looking for a new direction since my season has changed. I apologize in advance for any inconveinience this causes on your end.
Patrick Quinn
Here's your updated Season Plan, as promised. This is where you'll return to post all your "coach" questions as responses; I'll see them and reply. This first post is my best outline of how to proceed with your races, but you can ask any / all questions you want. So post away, know that I reply here usually M/W/F each week.
Power User Tip: Click the Star icon by the Title of this thread to subscribe, and you'll get email updates when I do reply.
Your Notes
Just completed the 2018 Outseason plan (run focus). Looking to update my season to make some changes. Unable to race tri this year so I will run focused. Still open to training the bike as well as swim to keep fitness up. I just completed the outseason run focus plan
Your Races
Season Update
These are your recommended training plans, including the date you should start each one (sometimes you won’t complete a full plan but transition to another one). You can change your plans on the Training Plan page by clicking the Move / Change button. Learn more about each plan on the Training Plan Central Page.
Coach Notes
Thanks for the update. I say that we leverage the bike early this year (bike focus plan) to lay down some good volume and give the run a bit (only a bit!) of a break headed into the end of this year with all that running...still want you running ~ 20 miles a week but all pretty easy here.
You'll move from that into our Half Marathon Balanced program as a bridge to the ultra plan.
Let me know what you think!
~ Coach P
Coach,
As I logged on tonight to upload the next phase of my training plan, I realized I never replied to your last update. I apologize, don't want you to think your work went unnoticed. I am totally on board with your recommendations and have been enjoying my training thus far. Looking forward to moving into the next phase. Thanks again, sorry for the slow reply.
Patrick Quinn
Coach Patrick,
I am coming to the end or my last training plan for the season. I am looking forward to contiuing my training for next year. I have signed up for Ironman Arizona for 2019. This will be my first full distance since 2013. I am looking to put in solid training over the next year to fully prepare. I feel like I have learned a little more since my last attempt at this distance. However, I k ow I have a long way to go in order to improve. I would like to improve at all distance but feel like I have the most to gain in my bike and run. That being said, I in no way want to disregard consistant swimming. Even though my race is not going to be made there, I still want to improve my overall swim fitness. I will also spend time focusing on my nutrition. At your conveinience could you please direct me on what my next plan should be in order to keep the momentum going. Thank you in advance for your time and I hope you are enjoying this holiday season.
Patrick Quinn
@Patrick Quinn - that is great news in Arizona! It looks like next year is going to be a massive endurance mission event. Excited you can join us. When I read a post like yours, I am reminded about how my kids want everything, and sometimes grown-ups do too. We can certainly work at all of those elements, but it’s not possible to do it all across a season. Becomes way too complicated and your ability to be successful at all three elements is reduced by time in fatigue.
I will outline a season for you and then you and I can talk here in a little bit more detail about what it means to integrate that general plan into your personal life. The goal is to distribute the work in such a manner across the year that you can’t see improvements and make the most of the time you have to invest.
Sounds great! Also could you please sugggest when would be an appropriate time to maybe do a 70.3? (Only if you think I would benefit from it). I would need some time to locate a race that is somewhat local to me. Traveling is not really an option since Arizona is going to be a big undertaking for the whole family. Thanks.
Patrick
@Patrick Quinn -
Great question. You can do one of two things...
First...you could do the Half before July...and make a "two part" season. So train, build 1, race 1...recover...build 2, race 2.
Second... You could postpone the half Until later in the year; making it part of your build to AZ. This gives you time in the earlier part of the year to focus on a particular discipline (bike? Run?) and then come back to do more of a "normal" IM build.
No real pressure on either. Most athletes do better with option 1, but I defer to you on the value / accessibility of racing near you. I am okay with your preferred race making the choice for us, for example.
Finally...one last thing! \/ \/ \/
PS - Let's update your profile picture when you get the chance…it really helps the Team to "get to know you" a lot better.
You can do that by following this animated GIF (below)…good luck!
Coach Patrick,
I have been looking into options for a 70.3 race to do pre Arizona. Also taking into account your recomendations from your previous response. My biggest concern is scheduling concerning my work. I am a police officer in Philadelphia. My department is a bit of a pain in the ass regarding vacations. We already had to submit our requests for 2019 summer vacations. A big reason I am doing a late season race is so I won’t make my race my family’s vacation for the year. All this being said I think my best option is to do a later 70.3. The race I have considered is Ironman 70.3 Atlantic City, NJ. I am very familiar with the course as I have raced it twice before. It is a fairly flat and fast course. This years date is 9/15/18. Can you please advise me if you think this is a wise choice. Thanks.
Patrick Quinn
Hey,
I was just wondering if you had any chance to consider my thougts for my 2019 season. Thanks.
Patrick Quinn
@Patrick Quinn sorry for the delay! I think that doing the Atlantic City race is perfect. Flat and still good temperatures in September for you. Now we have to come up with some targets for you so you can focus the earlier part of your season. I don’t know if you have the opportunity to do some century rides or similar fun events. You should let me know as those are things that we can build in as needed. I will get you your season roadmap today.
Here's the layout of your plan...
Updated on 12/20/2018:
All of our plans are now on Final Surge; as an EN athlete you can upgrade for just $5/month. You can do that here (see the video on the page): Manage My Account
Once you do that we can load your plans and get you rolling!
~ Coach P
Hey Coach,
Just a quick check in as I am nearing the beginning of my Ironman focused training. I have 2 questions I was wondering if you could help with.
1.) First is that I am headed on family vacation from August 11th until August 18th. This is the final week on my 1wk “get faster” training plan. My obstacle is that I will not have a bike with me. I was wondering how I can adjust my workouts to keep them at just swimming and running. I will be at the Jersey shore so I can easily run as well as use a pool possibly open water. I am not looking to scale anything back that week, just want to know how I can maximize my time.
2.) Second is that I am due to end my IM training plan on 11/17 and upload he Post IM transition on 11/18. I am racing Arizona on 11/24. I wasn’t sure if the end date of 11/17 is correct or should I change the end to 11/24? Your input is greatly appreciated.
Other than that I am very pleased how my training has been progressing. This winter’s base training has paid dividends. Living in Philadelphia we deal with high heat and oppressive humidity in the summer. This has always been my biggest enemy, causing me to retreat indoors to my treadmill. This year, trusting in my workload I have decided to move outdoors for the summer. All I can say is WOW! The plan you had me on leading up to this has more than prepared me. I have actually grown a strange love for this weather now. Focusing on my pace, hydration and nutrition has allowed me to crush my workouts. The endurance was already there so my runs have been fantastic. I have never been able to run in this weather. So thank you very much for putting me on the right path. I am super excited to begin my race focused training. Hope everything is going well. Thank you in advance for your time.
Patrick Quinn
@Patrick Quinn thanks for the feedback and I’m really pleased to hear how well the plan is going for you. Remember, I’m just giving you guidance you’re the one who’s doing all the hard work! 💪
You are correct that training plan needs to be bumped back a week. I believe it’s loaded properly in Final Surge and you can skip ahead to look. If it’s not we can then modify it to move it a week Ford around your vacation week. Speaking of your vacation week, although looking to do is run consistently while you’re there to get some kind of aerobic training in every day - that’s for all the days when you don’t have a quality run session per the plan.
All open water swimming is a bonus so don’t feel like that’s a proper training session but do you get out there when you can. 20 to 30 minutes is fine to complement the aerobic work you’re already doing on your running.
Well a week has passed. I avoided writing this report until I had a few days to let all the emptions from Arizona pass. So here it is, my IMAZ race report....
Going in to this season I had nothing but high hopes for what would be my first Ironman in 6 years. It was also my first since beginning tomtrain with EN. I felt as if this was going to be the one in which I would finally be able to race comfortably through to the end. By following the EN plans, I have seen significantly progress in my performance.
Prior to the start I was beginning to see that this race was not going to be as smooth as I’d hoped. We woke up on Friday morning, fully prepared for our 8:30am flight out of Philadelphia. American airlines felt otherwise. I received an email stating our flight was “delayed” all the way to 3:45pm est. That meant we would not be getting in to PHX until 7:30pm, aka way past check in time. I was able to get the flights swithced to 12pm with a 3:30pm arrival. This was definitely cutting it close but could be manageble. I still went to the airport early with the hope of grabbing a stand by seat on the 10:30am. That didn’t happen. I contacted Ironman and was told not to worry, they would pull my packet and I could get it after the 5pm deadline. A huge relief that made for a more relaxing flight.
Our flight landed on time and I left my wife and kids at the airport, jumped in an uber and headed to the beach park. Feeling good that I was going to make check in was short lived. My wife called to say that her bag was headed to California. This added yet another hurdle to our trip. We then spent the whole of Friday night trying to track the bag and dealing with not so helpful airline employees. This was particularly stressful a d lead to cancelled dinner plans and loss of our first day in Tempe.
Saturday was a diffrent story. Bags were recovered and we were back on track for our trip. We took my 5 and 7 yr olds to participate in the Ironkids race. This was such an awesome experience as I was able to run the 1/2 mile with my daughter and the mile with my son. I couldn’t have been more excited to see how much they enjoyed themselves. I was aslo impressed with the finisher shirts and awesome medals hey received. The rest of the day was spent relaxing, and watching netflix along with final race prep.
For the first time prior to a race, I got a decent night of sleep. I woke up before my alarm and felt ready to go. I walked down to transition to drop my bags and do a last minute bike check. Things were good and I went back to the apartment for my coffee prior to the swim start. I sat on the porch and simply enjoyed the peace and quiet. The swim start was directly behind our building so I was able to relax until right before the start. I headed down, ready to take on the challenge.
I seeded myself in the 1:20 group for the swim. I enjoyed some good conversation with a few other racers prior to entering the water. I had been mentally preparing myself for the shock of the cold for months now. I wore a full sleeve wetsuit along with thermal swim cap. To my surprise, when I entered the water I didn’t experience the “taking your breath away” cold like I expected. This allowed my to take my time and settle in to my stroke. I rather enjoyed my swim. I didn’t have to deal with and punching, kicking etc... I had some issues with leaking goggles. I stayed with my plan though and took my time adjusting them and was able to correct the issue. I kept pushing ahead and finished my swim as I’d expected. My garmin showed a slightly longer swim but when it was broken down I kept the pace I had planned. Swim time: 1hr 25mins
The run to T1 was rather lengthy, and cold. Friggin cold. Regardless I felt good and was not depleted of energy. Quick stop at the porta pot and into the tent. I instantly felt the warmth and stupidly spent too muc time sitting in it. T1 time: 15:46
As I headed out on the bike I ran through my plan in my head. Fully prepared to stick to it and focus on being smart. I was quickly introduced to the wind and admit I started to think this was going to be rough. Thankfully I saw alll the racers motoring on their way back to town so I was convinced it was going to be easier on that portion. I was right and really enjoyed what was basically a recovery ride back to town. My family was there to cheer me on at the turn around and provide an energy refill.
My strategy was to pace myself through the out portion and use the return as an opportunity to make up some time. This proved to be a good plan and loop 2 went fairly smooth. Loop 3 on the other hand was a different story. Towards the end of loop 2 I did begin to experience a bit of nausea. I was hoping it would pass and said to myself just pace yourself. No need ro surge. I made it as far as mile 77 when I got my FIRST flat. I hoped off and took my time changing so that it would be done right. Jumped back on and contiued my ride. 3 miles later, flat number 2! I can say at this point I did lose my cool and may have let a few expletives fly. Again I changed and continued on. Somewhere further down, close to the turn around, you guessed it, flat number 3! Damn the cactus needles! I’ve been reading about them for months and now they were here. Adding insult to injury my nausea was gettig worse and my nutrition plan was falling off. I had to stop at a porta pot where I ended up vomiting a little bit. I felt a little better afterwards but decided not o push to hard in the hopes my stomach would settle. I limped back into town, with an over all time 45 minutes slower than I’d hoped and trained for. Bike time: 7hrs 8mins.
T2 was fairly routine as far as my changing went. I was becoming aware that this nausea was only getting worse. I shuffled out of the tent and thought, I’ll walk for a bit to let my stomach settle. That plan was a bust as the stomach got worse. I was attempted to take in some nutrition but it was not staying down. My “run” was becoming a physical and mental struggle. I saw my family early on and let my wife know that things were not going well. She encouraged me to push forward and not to quit. By the time I circled back to them, a mere 4 miles in I was a complete mess. I layed down on the grass and began to vomit. I was having some serious doubts about my day and ultimately drew the attention of a nearby medic. He kept an eye on me and asked questions to kept me talking. My wide calmly told my kids to “turn away from daddy” so they wouldn’t have to watch. A humbling experience to say the least. She then bent down close to me and said , at least what I heard was, “get the f*ck up and start walking. You trained for this and you are not quitting”. After a fe minutes I stood up and walked off. The medic stayed with me and gave me some hand warmers to use as I was shivering pretty bad. I cut over to special needs and grabbed the sweatshirt I had out of my bag.
I took my time and continued walking the course. This was by far the darkest point of my day. I struggled for the next 6.5 miles as I occasionally vomitted and fought the battle raging in my head. I was having the worst possible thoughts and kept telling myself this wasn’t happening. I thought about having to return home and face everyone who had been encouraging me for months, only to tell them I didn’t make it. I thought about how I was going to be done w/ his IM things for good. I just don’t habe what it takes. I even thought about how I couldn’t wear the really awesome hat I bought at the expo. How could I walk around with that on my head when I had dnf’d? This, of course is only a small list of the dark thoughts I had. Then somewhere around mile 10, I saw it. A rather decent decline. I mustered the energy and said I’m going to throw myself down this and see how far I can take it. To my surprise I was able to take it pretty far, so I just kept on pushing. Suddenly my mind made a complete 180! The thoughts running through my head were now ones of extreme positivity. I used some small sips of coke to help ease my stomach and my body started to warm. I remember asking a volunteer what time of day it was, “7:15” she replied. “That’s it?” I had thought it was way later than that. Then the cloud lifted and I began to realize that I could make this thing happen. I began to ride the wave an was laying down 9-9.5 min miles. Not remarkable by any stretch of the imagination but compared tomwhere I was I would take it. By the time I hit mile 16 I saw my wofe and kids again. What a feeling to be able to run past them feeling infinitely better than the last time. I looked respectable again, and they knew that this thing was going to happen.
Unfortunately a few short miles later my stomach issues returned. Thankfully I was far enough into the run that I knew I could take my time and still finish. At this point that is all that mattered. I ran when could but mostly walked. Soon enough I could here Mike Riley’s voice and new this was real. I pushed on and managed to cross the line at 15hrs 36mins.
Overall it was not the day I set out planned on having. 11 months ago I started my training with a postive outlook that I managed to maintain through my build up. In the past I feel like I hit some training lows where I was just hoping for things to be over. Not this time though. I actually enjoyed my training. Looked forward to my workouts. And really noticed the improvements I was making. Now that I’m a week removed, I am not upset over my performance. I can say that I went through hell out there, both physically and mentally but in the end I stood tall. I would much rather come home with a 15.5hr finish knowing I fought, than a dnf knowing I quit on myself. I pushed my body and mind harder than I have before. Going forward this can only serve as a reminder that I always have some fight left.
They say you have to find your “why” out there. I think my why found me instead. It came at mile 4 on the run when my wife leaned down and told me to get up. When I was at a point of great weakness, she reminded me that she still believed in me. That was enough for me to keep going. She should get the medal for his one.
“You can keep going and your body will hurt for a week. You can quit and your mind will hurt for a lifetime”
PS: unsure of what caused my issues that day. On Thanksgiving my 7yr woke up with similar issues. He threw up for most of the day and could not keep anything down. Now I am wondering if I was actually sick for the race. Who knows????
heard from many athletes that needing to stop that many times can
absolutely D rail your nutrition. I would add to the equation that the
cooler temperature for the bike also really messed up any form of simple
Nutrition) on the day. I felt like it was a battle the whole time, and then
to get off into feel the heat of the run made it just got much worse. Your
experience reminds me of just how difficult things can become when your
mind is set against the task at hand.
While your race wasn’t what you wanted, you did have an opportunity to
learn this lesson for yourself. To see the power of a positive mental
attitude and to fight through seemingly insurmountable problems. That is
super valuable.
I suggest you take a few minutes and write out here in this foreign thread
what you eat and drink on the bike and when. For example one bottle of
Gatorade Endurance by Mile 10, one gel at mile 10, etc. This will help me
see if there’s any value I can add with regards to your nutrition.
I hope recovery is going well and that everyone is healthy for the holidays!
Coach,
Thanks for the reply. I have definitely accepted the mental achievement as being what I got out of this race. Going forward I feel like it has to get really bad for me not to push through. That being said I would rather learn to overcome the GI distress and have the race I know I am capable of having.
For this race I had been training with Infinite Nutrition. Specifically “nick chases race day all day blend”. I had been using one bottle per hour on my bike training. This was 301 overall calories w/ 0g of fat 71g of carbs 19g of sugar 4g of protein 393mg of sodium and 117mg of potassium. This pattern had been working well in the past few months. It was easy to drink and tasted well. I did however have to urinate frequently. Once I hit the run I had been using cliff blocks at 3 blocks every 30 minutes. All the while taking in water.
Once I started to drink coke I did get a bit of relief and was able to run. When it came back I avoided anything but water. Now I’m thinking I probably should have stayed with the coke. Regardless I am hoping to get my research in and figure this out.
Last question I had is regarding my training plan going forward. While I have not sat down and figured out what tri’s I plan to do in 2020. I am definitely in for a 40 mile run on April 4th, my 40th bday. This is not a true race but a run I’ll be doing on my own as a fundraiser, with a few friend’s jumping in along the way. How should I adjust my plan to ensure I am getting in the training. Thanks in advance. My best to you and your family for the holidays.
Patrick Quinn
I am glad to hear that you have taken the time to process the race. For many athletes it is completely natural to block it out. But every race has a chance to learn whether it was a good one or bad one… Or a complete disaster!
I am glad to hear that you have taken the time to process the race. For many athletes it is completely natural to block it out. But every race is a chance to learn whether it was a good one or a bad one… Or a complete disaster!
I agree they’re going to water only was awake with your undoing, but now you know.
we don’t need any triathlons on the schedule just yet, but I love the idea of the 40 miler. I would recommend you start off with durability for Runner’s phase 1. That should be super easy for you right now. I still recommend cycling a little bit to keep your legs fresh.
Once we hit the new year we can knock out a better plan. Right now it is all about running consistently. Distance doesn’t even matter at this point, just putting on her shoes and doing at least 1 mile.
InfinitNutrition option on race day than they do in training. As they
mention on their website, they really only want you to use the formula
itself, no other food and no other type of sports drink can get a little
challenging. Personally, I would suggest you remove the protein from the
drink mix. I have found that it becomes more and more difficult to digest
over the course of the day and that itself could be the culprit.
Love the challenge for the run, I remember when I did that many years ago.
I don’t want to compromise the work that you would be doing any out of
season, which starts on January 6, so I would recommend you load up the run
for his plan. Then you and I would supplement that plan with some
additional easy running. The key to the 40 miler is doing lots of really
really easy runs. And, logistics. I did my 40 mile run as 8x5 mile loops
around my house, which allowed me access to food in the bathroom as needed.
I thought that you load up the rent focused on season plan on January 6 and
then let me know what you’re thinking for runs and I can jump in!
Happy holidays,
~ Coach P
@Patrick Quinn just bumping you to make sure you receive my feedback! Hope things are going well.
Hey Coach,
Sorry I forgot to respond to your last message. Finally settling down after a busy holiday season. I loaded up the out season, run focused plan yesterday. I believe this is the one you said to use. I didn’t look through the entire plan, but imagine I may need to make a few adjustments with regards to long runs.
Coach,
As I progress through my training for a 40 mile run on 4/4/20, I had a few questions.
First is, what should I be looking at as my longest run? I know there are differing opinions these days on the long run.
Second is, should I be doing double run days during the program? I found that these were very beneficial during IM training. I may have just answered question one. If so how should I approach the double day. As if how should I break them up? I would allow for 6-8 hrs b/t runs. Thanks for your time.
Patrick Quinn
Good to hear from you! I recommend you head over to final surge and preview our 50 K ultra plans. In fact, can use that as a template now that we have created. Best practices. Balance versions So you can continue cycling if that's what you want. How does that sound?
That sounds great to me. Shamefully I have never loaded up final surge. How do I do that? Sorry for the inconvenience. I am really behind on the technology curve. We still use electric typewriters at my work. (No, seriously we do)
Patrick
Sorry, disregard my last message. I took the initiative and found your very helpful and direct video. I am now all setup w/ final surge. Thanks again.