It Doesn't Get Easier, It Just Gets Slower

Al Truscott

There's a common saying among bike racers, as you move up in the ranks and face better competition, that it doesn't get any easier, it just gets faster.

With aging,  the trajectory is in the opposite direction. It sure *feels* like I'm working just as hard, but when I do those 100 repeats in the pool, FTP intervals on the bike, or 3 x 3' @ zone 5 on the track, I look at the times, and wonder what happened to the numbers I saw five/ten/fifteen years ago. When I try to replicate that speed, all I do is end up hurting something. And it takes 2-3 times as long to heal up.

Just a public service announcement to the younger OFs: if you've been at this ten years or more, let those old times go.

Paul Hough

Great advice, Al. I've been running non-stop since I was a kid. All my run PRs are from age 26-31, and I had to start letting go at about age 40. It just gets worse each year.

Derrek Sanks

Yep, good advice but I'm at a different place. My endurance journey started at age 40 with marathons, age 44 with triathlons and age 48 with long course triathlons. I ran my fastest open marathon (3:17) last year at age 50, about 14 weeks after IMLP. Fastest open HM was March 2015 and fastest 5K was July 2016. Each of my IMs have seen improvements in one or more disciplines. All that to say, my goals have been to reach my potential before I start gradually slowing down...I don't know when that will happen, but I know it's coming (if not already starting). I just hope I feel I've reached that magical "potential" before it happens. @Al, I think we discussed this at IMLP last year.
I've been avoiding this forum to avoid getting a mind-set of getting older and slowing down, but recently subscribed after seeing some great content/advice...plus, every time I see someone my age or senior to me crushing it, that gives me hope.

Al Truscott

Derrick - several points of reference:

• Personal - I hit my IM PR ten years after I did my first (age 50>>60). But I might have kept dropping times another year or two, save for a bike accident the following year
• A study following runners longitudinally over a lifetime from high school to Medicare age showed times getting faster from HS until about age 35. Then, it was not until age 64 that times finally fell back to those initial sophomore HS efforts. 
• Another study: After PR times have been achieved (which depends as you note on when you start), the time loss is progressive. Something like 02.-0.5% per year after age forty, upping to 0.5%/yr after 55, hitting 1% by 65-70.

My main concern with starting this topic was to remind folks just like yourself that, at some point (probably after 10-15 years of serious training which includes intense interval work), race times and workout times will start to plateau, then drop off. Trying to keep them up at that point (no matter how old or young you are) is a recipe for recurrent injury or even burn out.

Mike Westover

One advantage to getting into the endurance game later is not having such aggressive times to target 

Approaching 40, I find I am still setting running PRs, mostly through training consistency. In my 20s I had similar peak run volume for a couple of years, but I couldn't sustain that volume over more than 1-2 months without getting hurt. Now I am better at taking days off (and stretching), and much more consistent. Last year with similar peak volume and body comp to my 20s self, I was able to take my 5k PR down by a minute and half marathon 8 minutes. And the half went down even further this year.

Still, I know at some point aging is going to beat smarter training, so to the extent I have big running time goals (sub-5, sub-17, sub-1:20, sub-3:00, sub-2:50) I am looking to take a shot in the next 2-4 years.

Mike Westover

Age graded times (based on world records by age) seem to be a reasonable way to compare performances and set expectations. Here are the 5k running times for a 70% age grade ("regional class") result:

Age Men Women

25 18:32 21:05

30 18:35 21:05

35 18:57 21:14

40 19:35 21:40

45 20:18 22:27

50 21:04 23:35

55 21:54 24:57

60 22:48 26:28

65 23:47 28:11

70 24:57 30:10

75 26:47 32:24

80 29:37 35:04

Bruce Thompson

FYI...I'll be 62 next month.  I agree with Al.  I can still do the intervals but my risk for injury goes up, especially on run intervals.  So far, I'm able to hit the same times for swim and same watts for bike intervals, but running is another story.  Frankly, I just don't even attempt Z5 running any more.  Just too much risk of injury.  I'd rather stay injury free & do lots of Z3 mile repeats...builds strength without injury risk.  And besides, my last sub 20 minute 5k was 4 years ago.  Don't think I'll ever see that again.  But I still can run a 45 minute 10k off the bike in an OLY triathlon. I'll take that any day.

Craig Marchione

While I am not in Bruce's running category, I am in his age bracket. I have found similar experiences in my running career. I do like the comparison of the 70th percentile by age group as it gives me a certain perspective on how I am doing and what, realistically, my goals should be.

Paul Hough

This just makes me feel worse.  I used to be well over 90% in my heyday as a single sport athlete, but I cannot do that 70% now.   

Susan Johnson

I think that older athletes need to keep it all in perspective. What are our goals? My goals continue to be life-long fitness, slowing the natural aging process, optimizing health, having fun and reducing stress! Al's point that it is important to realize we aren't going to get faster, but might get hurt is a great one. For me, a prolonged injury would set me back in terms of the goals I mentioned.

I took off 3 years in my late 40's to get a PhD (no regrets!) and I was considerably slower when I came back to triathlons. I don't want to take time off in the future due to injury because I was going for a faster time, so I work as hard as I can without breaking my body.

Robert Sabo

While the facts are the facts, we can still get faster by racing smarter, training smarter, and teaching our head to not get in the way of getting faster. Some of us are just slow learners as to how uncomfortable we can allow our selves to get and how hard we can push ourselves in training.

Paul Hough

This linked article from Triathlon Europe is exactly what we are talking about.

http://triathlete-europe.competitor.com/2016/11/04/evolve-your-training-for-your-40s-50s-60s

Robert Sabo

Paul - I think the article has some good points in general but each person is different and these generalizations he makes are very conservative. We still need to keep pushing ourselves and setting goals. Don't let reality get in the way of setting big goals and working hard. But don't be disappointed for trying and possibly coming up a bit short.
This is bad when I am the voice of optimism. My friends and family won't believe it.

Paul Hough

@ Robert - you'll get no disagreement with me. I'll be 60 next year and I'm a long ways from taking 1 day off a week let alone 2. I concur with the general direction identified in the article but I completely reject his advice as overly conservative for many athletes.

Al Truscott

Posted By Paul Hough on 04 Nov 2016 03:48 PM


This linked article from Triathlon Europe is exactly what we are talking about.



http://triathlete-europe.competitor.com/2016/11/04/evolve-your-training-for-your-40s-50s-60s

I have grudgingly learned that the recommendations made for those in their 60s in this article are wise. The hardest part of working out these days is those rest days (meaning, being willing to take one), and skipping the high intensity runs, which I admit to loving. I'm still able to manage one fast interval swim day a week, and probably do best with 2 each high intensity run and bike workouts every three weeks. It makes the OS a non-starter in some respects, but that's OK, as I'd prefer to be skiing during the winter 

Truth be told, I was motivated to start this thread after reading and reflecting on Coach P's "October Update". He's been at this game at a *very* high level now for a good fifteen years, he's into his forties, and he is a bigger guy. The combo of those three is high risk, IMO. I'm worried about him getting into a cycle of ramp up and re-injure something else. I started doing triathlons back in 1999 @ age 50 in part to "demonstrate what's possible as we get older". I've since learned that part of that is just what Susan talks about - keeping yourself capable of continuing to have fun with your fitness. And part of the route to that, as Paul suggests, is letting go of, or at least ratcheting down, the drive for maximum competitive success.

I had a good run of that success from 2003 >> 2015, but found myself starting to break down, and determined I had to accede to the reality that trying to do 2-3 IMs every year for the rest of my life would be a set up for mediocrity or permanent disability. I have watched more than a few IM racers a few years older than I go down that path - once champs, still able to get to Kona against the dwindling numbers in our AGs, but seeing their times drops much faster than 1%/year, or worse, having surgery after surgery to repair a ravaged knee or ankle.

It's a constant learning experience about controlling the things I can, and letting go of the things I can't.

Paul Hough

@ Al - when I reach M65, I may say the same thing regarding that much recovery, but I'm not there yet. I've been at beating my head on the endurance wall since I was a kid, and am still recovering very well. As to swimming, that's the newest discipline for me and I can easily handle more than 1 speed session a week. After almost 10 years in the pool, this is the first year that I venture down to the fast end (once a week) with the ex collegiate guys (mostly in their 50s). With fins and Roka Sim shorts, I can mostly keep up, although those are the hardest sets I do, and I have to sit out an occasional rep here and there to catch my breath.

Al Truscott

Paul, I guess it's all relative. I just checked my training diary since Jan. Not counting travel days to and from Asia, and recovery after IM MD,  I found 11 days with no entry - 7 were travel days, 4 were simply "days off". Seems like the change I've made is to stop trying to get in that morning run before I drive to the airport, or the evening swim or run when I get to wherever I'm going. But in years past, I could literally count the blank days for the entire *year* on the fingers of one hand.

Maybe after MiamiMan, when I do my season end review, I'll check on the frequency this year compared to past year of high intensity bike and run intervals. I really suspect that's been dropping, along with bike intervals. 

And more and more this season, I've been letting myself go very easy one day a week - say, 35 minutes doing body weight work, or running for 20 minutes as the sole activity in a day. Like I said, the hardest part of training is taking a day off. Seems like the main way I can manage it is to get on an airplane. I keep *thinking* I should take more days completely off, but I guess it's not really happening to any great extent...yet. I suspect it's right around the corner, though. The corner from 67 to 72?

I'd say you're still in the "keep doin' it till you can't" category. 

Paul Hough

Al - 11 is a far cry from 2 per week!! And now you made me go and count. I've missed 16 this year, most from travel. 1 flying back from LA; 3 while travelling in Iceland, 5 right after IM Switzerland, and a couple due to college trips with my daughter. There will be several more during my transition week after Miami Man. I think a "light" or "easy" day is generally sufficient for recovery than a complete day off. In fact, I think a 10 mile easy spin - active recovery - on the trainer is flat out superior to a complete day off. Right now my goal is only to get to where you are. Then I will reassess whether I want to continue at this level to the "corner."

Derrek Sanks

I feel like a slacker and don't want to look at the number of days off I've had this year. Actually, last year I had zero days off due to my ~380 day running streak. To Paul's point, I found a 2-3 mile Z1 (or <) run is good active recovery and better than a complete day off. This year I went back to following the EN plans. <br />
What are your thoughts on this...one change I'm thinking about experimenting with next training cycle is taking a "down" week every fourth week. My down week would be doing all the prescribed workouts but take out the bike and run z3-z5 intensity (e.g. 5 hr ride with 5x25' at z2-z3 would be a 5 hr 5 at z1-low z2). I'm guess the weekly TSS would only be ~10% lower (no actual data yet).

Robert Sabo

Derek - 7 days all easy and a 5 hour zone 1 both seem like a waste of time. cut long ride back to 3hours but at least a little z3 and maybe some pick ups on the run.

This AM I was first overall in a local 5k. 1st out of about 320. 18:39 into the wind and over two bridges. The varsity cross country teams were out of town. I won by almost 30 seconds. My last mile was the fastest at 5:52. I don't know when the last time I did z5 intervals. I'm hoping by New Years day 5k to break my PR of 18:00.

Trish Marshall

Posted By Robert Sabo on 04 Nov 2016 12:34 PM


While the facts are the facts, we can still get faster by racing smarter, training smarter, and teaching our head to not get in the way of getting faster. Some of us are just slow learners as to how uncomfortable we can allow our selves to get and how hard we can push ourselves in training.

^^^ This.  I am a slow learner! Adult onset athlete and runner.  52.  In this sport 7 years (6 racing)  Still think with Rob's points above and consistency, some pr's are out there for me.  But broken is harder to come back from so staying healthiness is job one!

robin sarner

age seems to be catching up with me already at 50 yo.

the fatigue thing is a killer.

part of the success from the successful Canada this year was taking a half year down and building back up.

my run is slowing though will combat this in the Outseason.

still have bike potential though.

peter Lautenslager

I agree with Robert.  We can train harder and smarter and still make large improvements.  At 56 I started my first Out Season this year (Advanced)  Hardest I've trained in years.  My FTP is at an all time high (275) and my 5k time is back below 20:00 (hasn't been there in years)  I feel that I still have not hit my ceiling.  As Long as I stay smart and know when to take a break, train smart and not get hurt who knows how far I can go.  I don't feel 56...
See you at IMLP Robert - glad I'm not in the same AG