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Race Wheel decision - guidance and suggestions appreciated!

Race Wheel decision - guidance and suggestions appreciated!



I am in the process of transitioning my TT and road bikes to power setups and gearing as recommended by Coach Rich. I currently have a Zipp 404 in front and a Zipp 808 in rear on my TT bike. I will be replacing the back wheel with a DT Swiss with Power and wheel cover for racing. I am considering my front wheel options. Should I (a) stick with the 404 up front and look to sell the 808, (b) go with the 808 up front and look to sell the 404, (c) keep them both and have the option of using either come race time (and then fretting over that race day decision!), or (d) none of the above, sell both the 404 and 808 and go another route.  Your impute and suggestions are greatly appreciated!   

Comments

  • I know it's possible for some rear wheels to be converted to front wheels with a hub conversion kit, I know people who have done this with HED trispokes, however I'm not sure if you can do that with the 808, so I think your option of keeping the 808 and using it as a front are out the door.



    Selling the 808 and using it to fund your PT rear is not a bad way to go, a disc cover wheel and 404 front is still a pretty potent combo. You could as you mention keep both wheels and still get the PT rear, but some of the few scenarios that I could think of where you would not want to use the rear disc would be if there were severe cross winds and you felt the disc was unsafe, in which case the 808 rear would be better but still a handful-- or if you go to Kona (pretty much the same reasons though).



    The other alternative is to just free yourself from the tyranny wheel limitations and get yourself a Quarq, keep the 606 and ride whatever wheel combo you want for training and racing and always have power



     

  • Thanks Trevor, I am already committed to the PT/DT Swiss combo, should be arriving any day. The plan would be to train with and race with the DT Swiss and if the winds made the wheel cover unsafe to just go without the wheel cover. I will look into the possibility of converting the 808 to the front. If that is possible, winds a non-issue, would you conclude the 808 to be a better front wheel choice than the 404?
  • The 808 is a faster front wheel choice depending on your comfort and ability to handle it. An 808 front can be difficult to handle in crosswinds, but I imagine that you are already pretty proficient in handling deeper section wheels in winds given that you already are riding with the 606 combo. To be honest, I'm not the best person to ask since I ride a HED Stinger 6/9 combo, analogous but slightly deeper than a 404/808 combo, so my experience is based off of riding a 60mm front as a rider at about 150 pounds.

    If it is in fact possible to convert an 808 rear to front the wheel cover in the back will help stablize the bike as a whole and there are definitely many people who ride 808 fronts, many much lighter than I, however having both a 404 and 808 front to chose from would offer you the 'ultimate' flexibility of having a super fast deep wheel for flat or not so windy courses and having the 404 for more technical or windy days.
  • I don't now of a way to convert the 808 rear to an 808 front off hand without changing the hub, which would require relacing the wheel with a new hub and spokes. For that cost, you could probably just sell the rear and use the money to buy the front as rear wheels cost more than fronts.

    As far as 808 vs 404 up front... the 808 is faster, if you are comfortable riding it. I plan to ride one in every race I do this year except Kona where I will be on a 404 front. That said the difference between a 404 and 808 is only a few seconds per 40k, so you have to decide if it is worth the money for very little gain... for most people it is definitely not worth it and I would say just stick with the 404 front and call it good.

    BTW, I have a 808 front clincher for sale...just in case you wanted one ;-)
  • Which one looks better? Do you have bike pics? 

  • Those are some great suggestions as I am contemplating what to use for IMKY. There are so many combinations that work well depending on what kind of a rider you are. I have 808 tunulars on my tri bike and feel very comfortable with them in most any situation. Being here in Florida near the coast I have learned to ride with them in the wind and hardly notice the gusts anymore. I tried to use a disc on the rear and 808 front during TT and tri's but find a better feel of speed, roll and overall comfort factor to stick with 808's front and back. I think when it comes to race wheels the real question is what are you useing, tubular or clinchers? I think I have seen that discussion here before.

  • Thanks for the feedback. Seems like there are a few variables, I ride clinchers and I weigh 190 (now) - 175 (peak). Beth, as far a pictures, I don't know how to include them here! I've seen instructions but haven't drilled in yet. Looks like I will have an 808 for sale if the conversion is that complicated! I like the idea of having an 808 in the front.
  • Matt, what are you asking for the 808 front clincher, or is that an offline discussion?
  • I have no reservations about running an 808 up front.  An 808 on the front with a cover on the back will be easier to handle than the 404 up front with the 808 on the back.  It just will.  That said, I agree that converting an 808 back to front is not worth it.  I assume that your 404 is a clincher? If so I would just run that with the cover in the back.  There is some evidence to suggest that a 404 could be as fast or faster within the average yaw angles that most of us will experience during an IM bike leg [around 20 mph].  Sell the rear unless you are willing to buy a PT hub for it.

    I have a 808 PT clincher that has more than 5000 miles on it.  Works great for all applications, just looks a bit silly sometimes.

  • Posted By Geoff Sage on 03 Jun 2010 11:37 AM

    Matt, what are you asking for the 808 front clincher, or is that an offline discussion?





     

    Hey Geoff, here is the thread of the stuff I currently have for sale including the wheel.  PM me if you are interested.  There are two people from Slowtwitch interested as well, be neither have sent money yet or confrimed they want it for sure.

    http://endurancenation.us.dnnmax.co...fault.aspx

  • Thanks again for all of the input. I think I will stick with the 404 front wheel for racing, I liked the idea of using the 808 but not worth the effort to convert. I guess i now have a Zipp 808 rear wheel clincher for sale!
  • @ Chris - why do you think the 808 front is easier to handle compared to the 404?
  • You will be happy with the DT/PT rear wheel with cover.  That is my set-up.  One of my RR's for IM CdA last year was 112 miles of high winds coming at me from all angles.  Brutal.  But I had no issues with the wheel cover on the back. 

    You got good feedback below on the front wheel. 

    I regards to: "keep them both and have the option of using either come race time (and then fretting over that race day decision!)"?  Please do your two race rehearsals with the set-up you will use on race day.  That way there will be no "fretting" AND Coach Rich won't show up and kick you in the nutz! 

    Good question.

  • I think if the decision is between 808 or 404 front with a disc in the rear, the difference is pretty minimal. I would go with the option that involves the least friction (i.e. converting rear wheel to front vs just keeping the front). And get EN stickers, of course.

    image

    Patrick
  • Posted By Paul Hough on 03 Jun 2010 08:06 PM

    @ Chris - why do you think the 808 front is easier to handle compared to the 404?



    The 808 on the front will be easier to handle when used with the cover on the rear as opposed to a 404 front with an 808 rear.  Something about the disk planting the bike to the ground.  A cover on the rear with a 404 on the front will be even easier.  No matter what combo you go with your wheels will not be your limiter.

  • I currently have front and rear Zipp 404s (probably about 5yrs. old) - do think it's worth putting a wheelcover on the back 404?

  • Posted By Joe Priore on 04 Jun 2010 12:53 PM

    I currently have front and rear Zipp 404s (probably about 5yrs. old) - do think it's worth putting a wheelcover on the back 404?

    Yes, the disc is alwasy faster.  As long as the race allows it for < $100 a wheel cover is a great investment. 

     

  • Posted By Matt Ancona on 04 Jun 2010 01:20 PM
    Posted By Joe Priore on 04 Jun 2010 12:53 PM

    I currently have front and rear Zipp 404s (probably about 5yrs. old) - do think it's worth putting a wheelcover on the back 404?

    Yes, the disc is alwasy faster.  As long as the race allows it for < $100 a wheel cover is a great investment. 

     

    $85 with the EN -Wheelbuilder discount.

    I just got my 404 front / 808 rear last week, and my wheelcover (with a brand new EN sticker) this week. can't wait to use them!



     

  • Just got back from my LBS where I ordered 50/34 compact cranks for both my TT and road bikes. I inquired about converting the 808 from a back wheel to a front wheel. Looks like it will cost between $200 - $300 depending on components. I will wait until I get my DT Swiss PT wheel and match the hub components. I've got enough invested in the wheel set already why not be able to continue to use them. The other thing I learned is that I can keep all the rear wheel components and convert it back to a rear wheel at any time.
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